this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2025
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As Trump mobilizes the marines to quell an “insurrection” in LA, it’s essential to be clear about how the protests started and what actually happened.

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[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 254 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

The penultimate paragraph sums it up well

The government has failed to protect us; the government is actively oppressing us; the government has rendered itself the enemy. Not all forms of resistance are advisable, but at this point they are understandable. The regime wants to shatter the social contract? Very well. But that decision cuts both ways.

[–] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 112 points 3 weeks ago (19 children)

Here’s the question no one seems to be willing to answer: At what point IS violence acceptable? Surely if folks were going directly into gas chambers it would be. So at what point before? And why will that inevitable line be after it’s SO MUCH HARDER to come back from? Seems like the old adage “a stitch in time saves nine” is very apropos in this moment.

[–] KingJalopy@lemm.ee 53 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's all good in my book. Has been for a bit. But I'm just some dude hoping this govt gets what it deserves.

[–] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 27 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Best time to take action was yesterday. Next best time is today. I hate sitting around waiting for the inevitable that WE ALL KNOW is going to happen - strike before they’ve fortified their positions!

[–] KingJalopy@lemm.ee 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm in California but I'm near Tahoe about 7 hours from the action. But this thing is getting bigger and I'm fuckin ready to go believe me. I even taught my daughter today how to spot the ice trucks and what to do if she does. I can't do much in my current position but I will absolutely throw down as soon as I get the chance. I take business trips to La every month and my next one is in 2 weeks. I'll be using company funds to do whatever I can while there. Fuck the meetings.

[–] zib@lemmy.world 29 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm not your boss, but if someone who worked for me said "Sorry boss, couldn't make it in because I was kicking the shit out of some ICE nazis", I'd consider that absence excused in a heartbeat.

[–] KingJalopy@lemm.ee 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Don't give a fuck off they do or don't honestly. This shit has got to happen now or it'll never stop. I'll be damned if I let my daughter grow up in tyranny.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 12 points 3 weeks ago

As someone who grew up under tyranny, very much this. Fortunately I haven't suffered the horrors unique to fascism so I can't speak much to those, but the "keep your head down and watch out for government informants so the secret police doesn't get you" talk is not a pleasant affair for either party.

[–] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 34 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Trying to differentiate between a gas chamber and a life sentence in El Salvador, is really tiptoeing the line.

[–] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I get your point, but in theory mine is reversible right now.

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[–] Saleh@feddit.org 27 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

It is quite simple. Proportionate responsive violence is appropriate. Key is that the escalation by the government needs to be met with escalation by the people, not for people to escalate first.

Note that civil disobedience isnt violence. Disobeying curfew? You are not harming anyone, except the governments authoritarian authority.

Government goons beat up people? Beat up the government goons.

Government goons start shooting? Shoot back.

We have been conditioned by decades of propaganda, that only they get to use violence and responding to their violence would be wrong. But it is not.

[–] andallthat@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

Trump is good (only?) at "fixing" problems that he himself created by.... stopping the thing that he did to create the problem. That's the TACO way. Enough backlash and he'll let go and claim he "brought peace to LA".

The problem is that "clamping down on immigration" is actually too popular (or not unpopular enough). The backlash Trump needs is about getting him to look bad, not shooting on the police and compacting the fuckers who already think they are on the right side. Peaceful resistance might actually be more powerful and effective in showing exactly who the bad guy is.

On the other hand I don't live in the US and I am aware how easy it is for me to say this from a safe distance....

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

this is a question I often want to ask the pearl clutchers.

I think some of them don't have an answer because they actually support the regime, and they're going hard on "non violence" because they don't want people to fight back

Some probably haven't thought it through, and don't have an answer.

Some probably have an answer that's a variation of "too late". You know, after they came for the unionists, the jews, the catholics, the mexicans, and there's no one left to stand with them.

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[–] iglou@programming.dev 15 points 3 weeks ago

There is no general hard line, as everyone's hard line differs. Rather than a hard line, the point of no return is likely defined by how many people consider their hard line crossed, and how many act on it.

[–] immutable@lemmy.zip 12 points 3 weeks ago

Here’s the thing about violence, the state has an absolute monopoly on it. This might be the most important defining characteristic of a state, it’s the thing that’s allowed to do violence.

There will never come a time when the state says “our monopoly is over, you can do violence now.” They would march people into gas chambers and claim it was an important victory for law and order.

The state depends upon this social contract, we all agree to not be violent, they get to wield violence in the common interest. That’s sorta the deal.

If the question is “when will the average citizen be ok with violence against the state?” The answer is that for some it’s ok now, it’s been ok for a while. For some it will never be ok.

I think we are not yet at the point where a large portion of the population thinks it’s legitimate. But I don’t know how long that holds out. A lot of people will be unhappy or outraged with ICE but if they were truly targeting gang members or taking people in prison and deporting them, people aren’t likely to take up arms.

The quotas they are pursuing now are running headlong into reality. They can’t find 3000 people a day to disappear that are sufficiently marred by criminality that people will accept it. You tell a bunch of ICE agents and local cops they gotta start finding bodies, once they run out of the small number of people accused of crime in the immigrant population, they will start just looking for anyone to meet their quota. That’s why we are now seeing them raiding fields, and Home Depot parking lots.

People are a lot less accepting of this, community defense starts sounding very reasonable when it’s the nice guy that helped you build your deck and not a person rotting away in prison already.

Fascism’s great weakness is that it does not care about solving problems. The goal is to manufacture a convenient scape goat to blame problems on, then capture power by pledging to destroy that scape goat. Fascism does often achieve its aims, it destroys the scape goat, but since that had nothing to do with the original problem the problem persists. The bluff must continue though, so new scape goats are selected in an ever widening ring of state violence. The “worst of the worst” has already become “the guy willing to pick our food at slave wages.”

The question becomes, will the population become comfortable with the violence necessary to dismantle fascism before fascism destroys enough people that they can’t mount a sufficient resistance.

[–] Skiluros@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

There is no clear cut point.

These sort of things have a life of their own and it only becomes clear in retrospective.

In Ukraine that point was when the government started killing protesters during Maidan (Feb 2014), that's when many people (who were generally strongly opposed to violence) started to believe that protestors fighting back was justified.

[–] kautau@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

My guess is once a police mob mentality takes hold and they start unloading on protestors because one racist cop gets itchy is when it will be that point for many. The ICE raids with police/nat guard/military support in LA are a testing ground for Trump to see how much pushback he’ll get from mobilizing multiple levels of state and federal armed forces. I would be surprised if it doesn’t balloon to other states. My bigger question is what nat guard / troops will do in what is clearly an attempt to illegally consolidate executive power.

[–] HexadecimalSky@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

with seeing the Homeland Secretary floating using military force to overthrow the CA government and arresting a CA senator for asking questions, all in the same "news brief"

A very good question indeed, when is it truly justified to punch back? Because we look back in time and say they should have done something...why not know?

My family says not to do anything overt right now, like join the protests...so we dont get on any lists and can join a more covert resistance when it all blows up.

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[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 11 points 3 weeks ago

Speaking of which, I strongly recommend this short watch for anyone seriously thinking about what they should do next. It's not pushing any agenda, just providing food for thought.

[–] Donjuanme@lemmy.world 112 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If the police did their jobs protecting the public from kidnappers blatantly rolling down the streets, they would've earned so much community good will

[–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 74 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Sounds dangerous. There is a reason they didn't sign up to be firefighters or teachers.

[–] 800XL@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago

Or pizza delivery. Which is a much much more dangerous job.

[–] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 80 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The fuckin nerve of that orange shit-for-brains using the term “insurrection” for something he’s not a participant of. Republicans are TRASH, every last one of them. Be nice to kick them to the curb.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 50 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

He's trying to get the media to echo the term, to get it into public discourse to describe these protests, so that when he tries to invoke the insurrection act, everyone is primed for it already.

[–] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 53 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Times like this I really hate Biden for not dropping the fucking hammer on Trump. Classic case of Dems giving up the easy win.

[–] entwine413@lemm.ee 37 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Or for not keeping his word about not trying for a second term.

[–] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 14 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah that pissed me the fuck off too.

That's exactly what's happening, this is all just so he can invoke the insurrection act and mobilize MAGA as the militia

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 49 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Anyone who thinks this wasn't the LAPD ramping things up with their gestapo tactics modeled after Trump, who most of them probably voted for, has not been paying attention for the last 50 years. The LAPD has a long long long history of this kind of behavior.

Quite frankly it boggles my mind why the entire force has not been fired and replaced by now.

[–] immutable@lemmy.zip 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

YouTube is convinced that the only thing I want to watch is police bodycams, and because I click them I suppose I’m not disabusing it of that idea.

There’s a world of police bodycam videos and if I see one that indicates the LAPD is involved, I know, with absolute certainty, I’m about to witness some of the worst policing known to man.

And the thing is it’s not that they are super abusive of their police powers in these bodycams, at least not intentionally, it’s that they seem to lack any kind of competence. Their reactions to situations are astounding in the amount of resources they will use to run around in a chaotic mess. I have to imagine their training manual is attempting to get criminals to give up through sheer cringe of watching them flail around.

If I were to ever encounter the LAPD I would immediately comply, because I would worry that if I at all failed to follow their instructions, 20 trainees would show up shooting each other with 40mm foam rounds until someone gets injured and I’d be on the hook for attempted murder somehow.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I’m about to witness some of the worst policing known to man.

Police and sheriff departments all across Florida would like a moment of your time.

[–] turmacar@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Like with Florida Man a lot of that is simply due to Florida's more lax reporting standards. It's less that Florida law enforcement are exceptionally worse and more that they're the sample that is most transparently on display.

Which is worrisome.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

The idiot governor of Florida just ok'd running people over with a car using the excuse "they were a protester".

So, yeah. It's not just the reporting, Florida is a fuck show.

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[–] JandroDelSol@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

Why would they be fired? They're doing exactly what they've been hired to do.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 37 points 3 weeks ago

And yet, the anti-protester framing is relentless, even from otherwise balanced sources.

It's not just anti-protestor framing. It's nearly everything of importance.

[–] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 31 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Finally, Media framing it the way it should be.

[–] stinky@redlemmy.com 15 points 3 weeks ago

The article is scathing, brutal and relentless. My god I am so relieved to see it. I'd never heard of this publisher before

[–] Carmakazi@lemmy.world 26 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Regarding the thumbnail, I figured procedure would be to remove your sidearms while on riot detail, being as you're getting within melee distance with multiple people at once, thereby risking it being snatched. It's more of a liability in that context, prison wardens do the same thing.

I guess asking a beat cop to give up his emotional support pistol is a nonstarter.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 13 points 3 weeks ago

If they give up their sidearms they can't use "he reached for my gun" as justification for their deadly response.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Especially since inside of 21 feet, I think the number is, between one person with a gun and one with a knife, the knife wins.

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[–] whostosay@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago

Laura Jadeed wrote this, and I gotta say, Laura Jadeed fucks.

[–] floo@retrolemmy.com 11 points 3 weeks ago

The idea that cops were just reacting to protester provocation is absurd.

[–] Zedd_Prophecy@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

Damn good article.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

TBH we should be rioting in front of big news headquarters.

In front of Facebook. Twitter. Google. They're not too far from LA. Employees should feel scared about enabling all this.

None of this shit matters if algos ignore it, deliberately. Trump can do whatever TF he wants because the media ecosystem built around him is so profitable and engaging, and covering it milquetoast (or worse) is so profitable, not because absolutely everyone obeys him for no reason.

We should make that unprofitable.

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