Ask Lemmy

Today I witnessed a group of coworkers almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born. I've heard stuff like "Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don't take leave".

Toxic masculinity.

Those people are jealous fucking idiots. 12 weeks is hardly anything. You get a fucking year for each parent in Norway

The traditional view that the father needs to work is strong. In Denmark we have had the opportunity to share the maternity/paternity leave between parents for several years, but most often the mother would take the majority, with only 2 weeks being specific for the father.

This is due to the imbalance in pay, since the cut in pay would be larger for a man (generally), so men voluntarily gave the leave to their wives. This is obviously not the intention of the leave and also based on the flaw of unequal pay. Keep in mind that the wage difference is often explained as being caused by the mother taking more leave and thereby not advancing her career during the years when they have small children.

So, to fix his, the latest law make more weeks untransferable. The father now has 11 weeks that can not be transferred. Use it or lose it.

One would expect such a removal of flexibility to make people upset, because technically it will cost the families more potential income, but it hasn't.

It turns out that most men actually wanted the additional weeks of paternity leave. They just needed it to be normalized and/or the legal framework to demand it, so they don't have to have this discussion with their employers or wives. No man is ever asked why they're taking it now. Use it or lose it makes sense to everyone.

In addition we still have 26 (13+13) weeks that can be transferred however the parents want. Still very flexible.

Sounds like attitude of wage slaves that have been brainwashed into doing everything for the corpos and being fine with getting scrap. They live to work as opposed to work to live.

Can't change the slave mentality of some people. They were just born to be one.

I was so mad that I only had 1 week of PTO to take care of my wife and son after the rough birth. Thankfully some friends pulled us into their place to help take care of my wife while I had to work, otherwise she would have had to get grippy socks....

I fucking hate this country.

People always bitch about fathers being too busy for their kids and shit but as soon as a father wants to be there they're all like "ew what the fuck is wrong with him"

Honestly it took me years to lose the American work mindset. It was destroying my brain.

Take the leave and feel no shame. Others are reacting because you taking leave challenges their understanding of work. Something that is exceedingly rare in the US.

I'll never have biological children of my own and I'll never get to use that benefit. From a strictly selfish standpoint, it stings a bit that pretty much all my heterosexual friends and coworkers, male and female, get a minimum of 12 - 36 weeks of paid time off that I'll never get.

Having said that, I'm genuinely happy that they get it, I think it's a shame that 12 weeks per child isn't a minimum standard for paternity & maternity leave. In the professional settings I've worked in that offer paternity leave, I've never experienced a coworker complaining or making fun of a man taking paternity leave, nor have I ever heard of a man NOT taking paternity leave when it's offered.

The places I've worked that offer it also usually offer flexible leave, so it's very common for new dads to take 4 - 6 weeks off at birth, and then work a reduced schedule for the remaining time until they're out of leave, after which they return full time. Even some of the moms are doing that as well, basically maximizing the amount of time that at least one parent is on leave and at home with the newborn.

But, outside of professional settings and particularly within conservative/Republican family and acquaintances, typically lower-to-middle class people, they act like paternity leave is ridiculous. My dad laughed out loud a while back when I mentioned I was taking over a new project because my coworker was about to go on paternity leave "What? Are you serious?" In my opinion, "toxic masculinity" aka stupid, ignorant, and useless concepts of overly rigid gender stereotypes is where this type of opinion is rooted. That and probably a good degree of jealousy.

I think a lot of the pushback can be chalked up to jealousy as well. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, then you can’t afford to take a 15% pay cut. Then of course, you taking leave means that they will have added responsibilities until you get back as well.

But it’s your right, if you can afford it then you absolutely should take it if that’s what you want. You can’t get this time back

Holy cow, that is a strange concept - I was coming back to add some of the hate you’re getting might be from affordability. Any paternity leave you can get in the US is usually vacation and unpaid. No one can afford much of that. That’s amazing that you still get an income to support taking care of your new child

Swede here. Taking care of your family means being an active parent and a sharing partner.

I took 18 months paternity leave with our firstborn so my partner could finish their degree.

I’m a dad of two, and in my country (Norway) it’s mostly common to divide the leave. With my first, I had 9 months of paternity leave, 6 months with my youngest. The two best periods of my life!

I did 6 months for each of my kids and it was great.

Paternity leave is a no brainer for families of all stripes. Both spouses should have time off to care for their children in the first year of their life, especially during the vulnerable first year before they are immunized against dangerous diseases. And I'm in a same sex relationship, so I'm definitely using it when we are ready to have kids, haha.

Honestly, each parent should have 6 mo of paid leave.

Edit: adding onto this, all men's bathrooms should have changing stations. It's insane that some women's do, but men's do not.

My thoughts:

We have it at my work (just called paid parental leave) and the guys seem to really consider it a benefit, they take it. Like you. Nobody has ever said anything but Congratulations. This is in Florida. You ARE supporting your family. I got 0 weeks paid when I gave birth, I'm really happy this is starting to change. Parenting is valuable work.

Spending the first 2 month of my child's life with them was one of the best things in my life.

You are absolutely right! 85% is nice money and especially in the first months it's super important to spend time with your new born and to support the mother.

And for all those fuckers who think that you "aren't working" in this time... Well, get a child and take care of it. It's way harder than you think. You will see, it's gonna be a hard but also rewarding time. My second daughter is now 3 months... And boy, to see everything that is happening within 3 months. It's unbelievable and makes me so happy.

You're on the right path.

Yeah probably as always only a matter of perspective. Don't listen to other men, just do what feels right for yourself.

I took a solid 9 months paternity leave with my son, and I think we just built the best base for a father son relationship I could ever imagine or hope to have. I know they don't seem like it as a baby, but you are building your foundation already.

This was 3 years ago and I still feel the outcome of it every day.

Go for it , be yourself, don't listen to others.

Here in Ireland I got a meagre 2 weeks (but took an additional 2 weeks unpaid!)

Most men are hard working and want to support their families

... which is exactly why you should take paternity leave and support your family, instead of abandoning them for 8 hours a day at work. I'd feel like a total asshole if I just took off and said, "Good luck with the baby, honey. I'm gonna go hang out with my friends at work."

I'm currently on paternity leave. Took 8 weeks broken into two chunks. 5 weeks when baby was born and 3 when my wife's 12 weeks ended. I couldn't imagine taking a few days and diving back into work. Both my wife and I work demanding jobs - I'm not sure I'd feel the same bond with my son if I didn't have this time... I also wouldn't have the same appreciation for how challenging it can be to be solo with the kiddo. It's pretty much a full time job to feed, change, and tend to the little guy. He's fighting to be a never napper and wakes up after 20-30 mins in his bassinet. Only gets longer naps if on my lap, which pretty much locks me down in whatever chair were in when he falls asleep (I know I can't do contact naps forever and need to get him used to falling asleep on his own).

All that to say... I think all dad's should get paternity leave. 5 weeks is fine. 8 is good. 12 is perfect.

I'm pretty sure there is enough research that supports the idea of paternity leave increasing parental involvement and connection with your child and leading to more gender equality/more balanced responsibilities in families.

My husband and I went the very conservative route with him being off for 2 months and me being off for 3 years (German classic). Let me tell you I would have not survived the newborn stage, having no help from outside, without him. At the same time, for him it was so hard - although I am not sure that work was easier, he after all still came home to a little baby. Parental leave doesn't mean you get to chill, it means you have no excuse for not doing half of the night shift, half of everything except breast feeding. When he went back to work, he would do the night shifts on the weekends, and I would do all the night shifts on workdays.

Your co-workers are morons. They miss out on helping their baby mamas, connecting with their kids, and going through a unique experience. Even if your pay was much lower, it's worth it. It's hard and stressful and awful and it is the best thing you'll ever do.

Its amazing. Especially if you take it when mom goes back to work. That's your time to figure out how to be a parent. Not what works for mom or grandparents. Your thing between dad and baby. I figured out I had to take walks around the block to get baby to nap. I think of that sometimes now when she's big. Also: if they give you shit: say - "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to spend more time with your kids."

I've just lost someone in my team for 4 months due to paternity leave. As far as I'm aware on full pay too.

I'm happy he gets to take it, you guys in the US have it rough with workers rights. I'd say take the maximum you can and enjoy the time, we're not put on this earth to generate profit.

Be the change you want to see and make sure you brag to everyone about how great it is when you get back, maybe they'll start to think differently.

I took it, no way I'd miss spending quality time with our newborn and be there for my wife.

The employer has some heads up that it's coming too, so they can adjust the workload for something that occurs maybe once or twice in an employee's lifetime.

But then I live in Quebec, Canada and the father can take 5 weeks and the mother can take a year. (The father can take more, but they're swapped of the mother's year).

In my work environment (in the US), people have roughly this much paternity leave, and it is taken for granted that they will take it because this is viewed as important even if their absence during this time inconveniences the rest of us. They often split it up, though, instead of taking it in a single contiguous chunk.

We took the first 10 months together and then I took an additional 8 months while she got back to work.

Literally zero regret. There's so many small moments you'll miss not being around. No amount of money can bring that back. Now that I'm working full time, it fucking hurts just seeing the kid basically just for dinner and bedtime during the week.

I think it’s an important time and should be available to any working American without exception. When my first child was born, I remember asking HR about paternity leave and their deadpan response was “how many vacation days do you have?” Disgusting.

Like mat leave I don’t really think about it, to me it’s just assumed

In Sweden, we have 16 months of parental that can be split between parents.

Nurses do house check-ups for the first few months and it's great for both parents to ask questions and get advice.

These guys who have the option but decline caring for thier family sound like shitty partners/dad's

I had both my kids before this existed. I would have killed to have 12 weeks paid off to be with my new family. Getting exactly zero days off when you are a new dad SUCKS.