this post was submitted on 02 May 2025
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chapotraphouse

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It doesn't matter how long you make them read Lenin and break rocks in the gulag, the second you let them out they'll see an AI generated meme from a CIA holdout posting from a bunker somewhere and immediately revert to being a burgerbrained fash.

I think we need to just dump them on an island somewhere and put them under continuous naval blockade and internet blackout till they revert to a Hunter gather society.

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[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 37 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

If China could reform Puyi, working class chuds can be too. It may take time, and more effort than most want to spend, but it can be done. The hyper wealthy on the other hand…

[–] XiaCobolt@hexbear.net 46 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Beyond even Puyi. I read an account (which I'm trying to source again fucking internet no longer working) from an Japanese soldier who had unashamedly admitted to various war crimes, the communists housed him and his fellow soldiers in clean and comfortable, if spartan and small accommodation, they fed them despite post WW2 shortages and at one point they even gave him limited penicillin for an abscess in his spine.

There was no torture, they just had group discussion or wrote essays about their war crimes. Sometimes survivors of massacres they participated in were brought to them to talk about their experience. The worst punishment he received was early on when they thought he was flippant about his war crimes, they made him spend a night in the cell that prisoners awaiting execution by the Japanese would use, on the walls were signed names and last testaments, often written in blood and there was basically no space.

They did this for months and years, until he and all his fellow soldiers knew to their core what they had done was wrong. They did bring in other political teachers to try and educate them about communism and he was like "buddy I don't care about economics". But eventually after a few years they just sent them all back to Japan. Guys who by all rights should have been hanged at the Hague. And nearly all of them because staunch anti-Japanese imperialism/militarism activists until the day they died.

And I'm not religious anymore but that struck me as one of the most selfless and moral responses to pure evil. While also so pragmatic they made their worse enemy into their weapon. And I think if they could do it with them, an American Treatlerite could be fixed.

[–] Sinisterium@hexbear.net 7 points 17 hours ago

Because it destroys their ideology framework. They spared them not because they “were better than that” or because the soldiers “deserved it” but because in the minds of the japanese fascist any violence was justified and will be justified because the enemies are violent brutes who will mercilessly destroy and brutalize the Japanese.

[–] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Please find the source. I’d love to read that in detail

[–] XiaCobolt@hexbear.net 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The location was here and some of my details are corroborated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fushun_War_Criminals_Management_Centre

I'm trying to find it because it was very interesting and moving but searching for "china" "prison" "war crimes" obviously gets you different western propaganda stuff.

Edit: this is a really good article and talks about the anti war organisation

https://sttpml.org/miracle-at-fushun-the-transformation-of-japanese-war-criminals-from-devils-into-humans/

I think now I might have read the account in a physical book so I'll think about where it might have been.

[–] XiaCobolt@hexbear.net 27 points 1 day ago

From the article

The following is one such example which illustrates how difficult the Fushun project was for the Chinese people to carry out. A young prison guard was shocked when he discovered that a Japanese detainee who had killed his father was among those he was in charge of. After weeks of agony, he told the prison director that he wanted to be transferred. The director said: ‘I know perfectly how you feel… But if you give up on these detainees now and walk out, they will pick up guns and invade China again. This means that there will be many more deaths like your father’s. We must stop these Japanese men from becoming aggressors again. Don’t you think that this is what your father wants most in heaven as well as how you can fulfil your duty as a good son?’ The director’s words made this prison guard realise how important the task of re-educating the Japanese prisoners was for the future of China. Not only did he continue to work at the prison but also worked even harder. One day, his “enemy” suffered an acute appendicitis attack in the middle of the night. The guard carried the sick man on his back to the medical room to save his life

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What a wonderful addition, thanks for sharing. I am with you.

[–] XiaCobolt@hexbear.net 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I think it's disputed that Mao actually said

Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy

Like the Lenin weeks-decades thing. But I always think that quote is wrong. Communism is love. From Che Guevara

At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality

And boy is that love a hammer we use to crush the enemy.

From the meeting between both in 1960

Guevara: A point in Chairman Mao’s works is found by Fidel [Castro] to be very important, which I failed to notice at the beginning. That is to treat war prisoners generously: to cure their wounds and send them back. [We] realized this point which helped very much [in our struggle].

Mao: This is the way to disintegrate enemy troops.

[–] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy

Like the Lenin weeks-decades thing. But I always think that quote is wrong. Communism is love. From Che Guevara

At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality

And boy is that love a hammer we use to crush the enemy

This is dialectics

[–] XiaCobolt@hexbear.net 10 points 23 hours ago

This is dialectics

It was not lost on me fidel-salute

[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 48 points 1 day ago (2 children)

We're talking about people whose minds are not up to the task of reconciling "Earth's average temperature is increasing" with "it's a bit chilly today"

[–] Dessa@hexbear.net 31 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That sounds like they're lacking basic education. At the end of the day they're people,nand in some fantasy scenario where communists take power, the idea that a special class of people is naturally dumber and deserving of lesser treatment is just barbarism by another name. We've tried this already.

[–] SovietBeerTruckOperator@hexbear.net 26 points 1 day ago (2 children)

That sounds like they're lacking basic education

These are literate people who grew up in a society with (albeit shitty for a developed country) public education and internet access. They're horses surrounded by oceans of drinkable water but refuse to take a single gulp.

[–] Dessa@hexbear.net 23 points 1 day ago

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain how material conditions can affect the development of people on chapo dot chat.

Calling an entire class of people irredeemably stupid by nature is reactionary. If people are capable of and refusing to learn, there is a systemic reason why. Either that or you are misunderstanding the issue.

[–] junebug2@hexbear.net 32 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

i do sometimes really agree with the idea behind “horses surrounded by oceans of drinkable water”. but the sheer number of kids i have seen turn from belligerent to enthusiastic about education because they were moved closer to the board or given glasses is unreal.

it’s worth noting that the median USAmerican reads at a 6th grade level. what that means is they can read a page of info, and then tell you what the words on the page mean and report back on the basic content of the page. abstract or critical thinking problems are beyond them. half of people are worse off. it is more accurate to say that most people in our pig country will need education, not re-education.

even for young people, from the 1990s to the early 2010s, most school districts required reading to be taught incorrectly. an unfortunately mistaken psychologist thought that guessing at words from the first letters and the picture should be taught instead of phonics. the above is essentially the strategy of certain “middle readers”, and the idea was that the “good” cohort would sort themselves out, and teaching a different strategy to the “bad” cohort would help them. what happened is that the “good” cohort does figure some things out, and the other two don’t learn how to read.

holding a kid back a grade was also basically banned by no child left behind, so you’d just advance fourteen year olds reading at a second grade level

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Ones mind being up to the task for anything is made difficult when you live in a culture based around exploiting you, gaslighting you, and withholding from you. The chuds know things are wrong, they just have had decades of being told that they’re seeing things, or alternatively that they’re right, but it’s the minorities whose fault it is.

[–] Doubledee@hexbear.net 22 points 1 day ago

I think it's also worth distinguishing disengaged/ignorant chuds from like, baying CHUDS who will triple down on everything because they just want to hurt people. I definitely know people I can't talk to about anything political because there's literally no point, they aren't attached to any political ideal or position beyond fucking with people they hate.

[–] Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 20 points 1 day ago

I think even the hyper wealthy could be reformed on a long enough time scale. I think time is the fundamental issue with re-education. Some chuds are going to take decades to destroy all of their brainworms. Then, it will take even longer to actually educate them.

A cultural revolution in the US is going to be a massive undertaking. You would likely have to use the newly-empty prisons and then some to house all of the chuds. It will be hours per day of classes to get them back to a baseline understanding of how the world actually works. Especially getting them to understand that no, human nature isn't to take everything for yourself and kill anyone else.

And a lot of them will deserve execution. But we don't do executions as punishment. We do them out of necessity when there's too many people to try and change or who are too dangerous to be left alive.

Affluenza seems less serious than whatever brainworms Facebook conservative groups give you.