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It was easy to tell AOC was full of shit when she eulogized McCain despite not being a politician up until that point nor running in the same legislative body and party as McCain.
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Corbyn had it in him to form a new party even if it was due to him getting kicked out of Labour.
this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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chapotraphouse
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I'm not going to watch a 7 minute video of some nerd ranting if anyone wants to post whatever Zohran actually did
he said a while ago that israel could exist as one state with equal rights, which I steelman as fundamentally not being israel at that point, like how a post-prison abolition society would still detain serial murderers somehow but in a way fundamentally unlike the current carceral system.
more recently he slipped on discouraging "globalize the [uprising]" because a bunch of zionists have made a protracted effort to get liberals to piss their pants about the scary brown word "intifada" even though the arabic language materials from the holocaust museum used to call it the "warsaw ghetto intifada"
mr empanada has no tolerance for either of these concessions.
They changed the word from "intifada" to "mukawama" , meaning "resistance".
wonder what the M in "Hamas" stands for, L bozos
Frankly, I think puting some distance between himself and the phrase is probably just canny politics. Why die on the hill of flowery language (that you never used in the first place)? Now they can't really repeat this 'criticism' without looking kinda silly.
I think its kinda telling that BadEmpanada is basing this prediction for how Zohran would be in office on a few recent media statements and not, say, the five years he was in the New York State Assembly. I also think there's some distinction between Entryism to the Democratic party on a national level vs on a local level. Sure, AOC doesn't use her national platform to challenge the powerful status quo. That's a valid criticism. But this is a mayoral election - the goal here is different. It's not about challenging power, so much as wielding it - using the local levers to give a concrete demonstration to people that yes, something better is possible.
Now they can't really repeat this 'criticism' without looking kinda silly.
From your perspective perhaps, but this is a severe, severe misunderstanding of liberal rhetoric if you think Zohran put himself in a better position. They can still point to the hours of time he spent in interviews defending his position and easily claim -- and if we're being charitable to Zohran, there's truth to this -- that Zohran is basically just lying to try to get out of being interrogated on this issue, but his underlying beliefs about opposition to Israel's government are identical. Basically all he succeeded in doing is helping his right opposition paint him as perfidious while looking like a coward to his leftist supporters. I give it a week before rightists say that he's doing "taqiyya" and, cartoon Islamophobia aside, the most hopeful position is literally that those people are right!
“They can’t call him a jihadist now without looking ridiculous!!!”
i completely disagree tactically. never play defense. Zohran's strength is that he offers positive things.
it's also empanada's second channel so really nobody should be watching it or taking it seriously but we came from the chapo subreddit so whatever.
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I hate streamers holy shit, why does anyone watch them.
AMERICANS STOP THINKING DEMOCRATS WILL SAVE YOU CHALLENGE: DIFFICULTY IMPOSSIBLE
does anyone seriously think a mayor is going to affect the party's foreign policy positions? i just want things to improve somewhat.
Like even Zohran has said explicitly that he doesn't think his victory will bring socialism but rather at this stage of organization he things electoralism is an effective tool for consciousness-raising and movement-building
an effective tool for consciousness-raising and movement-building
While this is not wrong, I feel like it gives the wrong implications. Demonstrating how Liberals will immediately turn into fascists the second their "passive income" schemes are called into question raises consciousness. Drawing out genocidal billionaire freaks like Bill Ackman into conspiring openly on TWITTER about how to undermine an election raises consciousness. Having the President of the US threaten to deport the leading candidate in a mayoral election with no pushback from the liberal media because they're too busy trying to extract a loyalty pledge for Israel raises consciousness.
All the Jacobin variety slop about how Zorhan represents a new dawn socialism in America is mostly cope. I don't think it is helpful to make assumptions about what will happen if he is elected, optimistically or pessimistically though. What makes it worthwhile in my opinion is that it makes it clear who our enemies are. Even Sanders, the decrepit old bum, made these people show how much they completely despise working people. The mountains they moved to ensure universal healthcare would remain off the table completely. They're normally able to hide it, but in moments like this they reveal themselves like vampires caught in the act. It's a sight nobody can forget once they see it.
I don't think we will win much of anything through elections, but periodic demonstrations that bourgeois democrats will kill any genuinely popular and beneficial reform movement is not a complete waste. It prevents them from getting away with the act that they give a shit. Every time it happens, it isolates them. Even figures like AOC and Sanders grow more isolated. At this moment, it's hard to portray them as misleading the movement, because that would imply they are leading it. They are chained to the sinking ship. The only people who care about their opinions are people who reply to ActBlue robo-texts.
He did propose a policy for interfering with the funding and operation of "charities" that are supporting Israel from New York.
Too early to say with Zohran, I give politicians three strikes before they're out, he's 1/3 he can still hit a homerun
AOC on the otherhand is a hindrance and a dud, I dumped her in Jan 2019 when she went after Illhan
Too early to say with Zohran
exactly!!! so many people rushing to conclusions, can we please watch and see what he actually does? although i will still say i always sympathize much more with an overly cynical opinion over an electoral candidate than an overly optimistic one lol
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I feel like it's worth zooming in on something he says about these people wanting power, wealth, fame, etc. There is specifically a trend in the DSA whose primary base is in NYC that believes power and fame are essentially the same - that AOC being a household name is equivalent to power for the DSA - so these people they helped to elect simply holding prestigious titles conveys power to the DSA in their worldview no matter what the elected person does.
I don't know if AOC agrees with that position or if she just personally likes the wealth and power. My guess is Zohran comes out of the tradition but will more or less carry out the same program of caving to the Democrats to maintain his position.
As long as this idea remains the dominant trend in leftist politics in the US we will always falter.
Difference being he's trying to be a mayor, not a Congressional Representative. He'll have actual power to make New Yorkers' lives better by virtue of his executive authority, something AOC lacks.
I'm sorry but I think this is fundamentally incorrect. The capitalist state is not designed for us to wield. Every single aspect of government will be holding back every single thing he proposes (assuming he even wins the election which is not a given like so many assume). The state and federal governments, the courts, and the city bureaucracy will obstruct and hinder him every step of the way and unlike historical reformers he is not the valve holding back a mass movement that is baying for the blood of the rich. He can't even stick to his guns about the intifada, how's he going to overcome a judge that says "fuck you you can't do that"?
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He is useful insofar as he provides evidence that internal change is impossible. He also might make life a little more bearable for the people of new york and that is good I think
There's a lot of energy around his campaign, and a lot of hate being thrown his way. Socialists that think he's going to transform nyc into a commune are both wrong and don't exist. He's running for mayor of the largest city in the country, not as a representative in the capitol. He can make actual changes that may flop or succeed, but those are actions that will effect millions and be seen by even more. Try not to make perfect the enemy of good here, socialist can get something positive out of this, and the reactions from anyone right of him should show that- there's real fear there. Making rent affordable and transit free are achievable goals with demonstrable results. That's good for us. It's a good endorsement for our program. Hound his ass when he's in office, but don't over think this now. We're living in an evil dying empire, take the w. His campaign has more potential than the current left has had in this country. Yeah Bernie sucks, he didn't win. Yeah AOC sucks, you have a point. But the game is on, roll the fucking dice and don't look a gift horse in the mouth, this is good PR and a beacon for those who may not have been reached before.
Try not to make perfect the enemy of good here
You did the meme
Yeah Bernie sucks, he didn't win. Yeah AOC sucks, you have a point. But the game is on, roll the fucking dice
If you keep on losing no matter what you try, maybe it's time to pick a different table instead of falling for the next DNC lib who says Hope and Change.
You did the meme
And that's terrible
The other tables don't exclude the socialist mayoral campaign for New York City. He's used the DNC against their wishes, they went in for Cuomo and failed. And they're now split in still supporting Cuomo, staying with Adams, or trying to influence Mamdani into their fold. As it stands his rhetoric is socialist and he's won the primary and he's at present not beholden to them. This is a strange instance where he essentially fell through the cracks for multiple reasons and succeeded, on the backs of a great volunteer campaign. I'd rather see where he can go on such a huge stage with a good platform than admonish him as if he's simply a self-titled progressive advancing mediocre, soft-left campaign promises. We have so little to work on at this scale, I'd rather take the "bait" and be called a lib later than get off on another lecture about how this is once again not the path to follow.
And that's terrible
Yes it is, because just like when the voteblues use it, all it can possibly serve to do is question-beg your position.
his rhetoric is socialist
So is Bernie's half the time, and AOC has quoted Kropotkin. It doesn't matter, it's just empty words that dilute what socialism actually is in the absence of actual socialist positions like supporting the resistance against Israel or challenging the financiers whose global capitol is the city he is trying to become the mayor of.
We have so little to work on at this scale, I'd rather take the "bait" and be called a lib later than get off on another lecture about how this is once again not the path to follow.
This is the same whipped logic that people under the DNC use, being led along by shapes and colors endlessly failing to kick the football and refusing to accept that they need a different approach than hoping for a Democrat to bail them out, except here it's communist shapes and colors instead of radlib ones.
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I'm just going to keep this in my pocket to hand out later 
Haha alright, @ me then
I mean, I appreciate the optimism, I just think Democrats have proven themselves to be an irredeemable dead end
He's not even in office for fucks sake
BE really is our Diogenes
In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his empanada
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potential shouldn't be underappreciated. Expect nothing, and general worsening, that is the status quo. But watch, in case something different is happening
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yeah honestly i don't find it any different from people who become cops because they think they're one of the good ones who will change the system. acknowledging any level of legitimacy of the illegal amerikkkan occupation and engaging within its systems in any fashion will never ever lead to revolution, and americans have their heads so far up their asses they really think that electing the right trendy people is "progress"
Strong agree tbh he's giving off some Obama energy to me. People forget that he ran much further left than he turned out. I'm glad to be proven wrong though
That's what I've been saying. You will not create meaningful change from the inside and electoralism is a fuck.
It's 
or Hitler.
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Don’t break my liberal heart Mr. Empanada
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