this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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chapotraphouse

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[–] OldSoulHippie@hexbear.net 14 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That's what I've been saying. You will not create meaningful change from the inside and electoralism is a fuck.

It's gui-better or Hitler.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 0 points 5 days ago (2 children)

If electoralism was viable in Czarist Russia, it's viable now

It's a tool, it can work for us (Zohran) or against us (Bernie/Sander)

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

The marxist strategy for electoralist entryism, was to form our own working class parties and use the electoral pulpit to spread socialist ideas.

It never succeeded in actually electing candidates and turning any state based on bourgeios parliamentarism, into a socialist one, in any country.

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 11 points 5 days ago

Allende came closest to actually reform into socialism and look, what they did to him.

[–] RedSailsFan@hexbear.net 6 points 5 days ago

what makes me mad is that zohran is honestly pretty close to that, sanders or AOC never said anything close to "seizing the means of production", makes his moves towards moderation much more frustrating

[–] Bay_of_Piggies@hexbear.net 2 points 5 days ago

He is apart of the DSA more than he's apart of the DNC. The DSA is flawed, but it's definitely an organization sitting in the ring, waiting for a chance to take power.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The Marxist Leninist strategy is to elect socdems to power WHO WE CAN OVERTHROW

We need soft liberals in power WHO HESITATE at the crucial moment the socialists strike, liberals who are allergic to exercising power and violence, who bend the knee to growing worker power and don't realize the danger they're in until it too late

That is when socialism explodes onto the national stage

In marxism electoralism is a strategy of maneuvers and positioning, not transformation or "evolution" like the old and new socdems claim

[–] RedSailsFan@hexbear.net 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

this didnt work in germany, SPD was very fucking willing to use the freikorps to crush the communists

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net -3 points 5 days ago

Because German socialists capitulated to the SPD and not the other way around, which allowed liberals who were not allergic to violence to take power

The Germans mistook the SPD for a transformative workers party instead of something that had to be maneuvered into place and supplanted

Ironically the SPD flipped the script on the socialists and out-maneuvered them to their doom

[–] OldSoulHippie@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

There are always more factors at play than elections when big shake ups happen in any government. It's like how democrats love taking credit for grassroots leftism just because they perceived themselves to be "the left" and can't recognize that others are farther to the left than Bernie sanders.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

They can only get away with it becuase the American left is fragmented and underground, it can't emerge above ground to challenge the dems until it locks down the electoral game with a third party, the left can't develop a third party if it's most radical wing refuses to take electoralism seriously

[–] OldSoulHippie@hexbear.net 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Hard to take something seriously when it just changes the rules so we can't win shrug-outta-hecks

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The point isn't always about winning, the point is to build an army and a base of support, stolen elections in that context makes our job easier

[–] OldSoulHippie@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago

I can agree with that, and other points you made in this thread. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what my feelings on mamdani are because I can't vote for him anyway.