The other tables don't exclude the socialist mayoral campaign for New York City. He's used the DNC against their wishes, they went in for Cuomo and failed. And they're now split in still supporting Cuomo, staying with Adams, or trying to influence Mamdani into their fold. As it stands his rhetoric is socialist and he's won the primary and he's at present not beholden to them. This is a strange instance where he essentially fell through the cracks for multiple reasons and succeeded, on the backs of a great volunteer campaign. I'd rather see where he can go on such a huge stage with a good platform than admonish him as if he's simply a self-titled progressive advancing mediocre, soft-left campaign promises. We have so little to work on at this scale, I'd rather take the "bait" and be called a lib later than get off on another lecture about how this is once again not the path to follow.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 22 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And that's terrible

Yes it is, because just like when the voteblues use it, all it can possibly serve to do is question-beg your position.

his rhetoric is socialist

So is Bernie's half the time, and AOC has quoted Kropotkin. It doesn't matter, it's just empty words that dilute what socialism actually is in the absence of actual socialist positions like supporting the resistance against Israel or challenging the financiers whose global capitol is the city he is trying to become the mayor of.

We have so little to work on at this scale, I'd rather take the "bait" and be called a lib later than get off on another lecture about how this is once again not the path to follow.

This is the same whipped logic that people under the DNC use, being led along by shapes and colors endlessly failing to kick the football and refusing to accept that they need a different approach than hoping for a Democrat to bail them out, except here it's communist shapes and colors instead of radlib ones.

[–] Tiocfaidhcaisarla@hexbear.net 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Then we're moving the color spectrum left! Obviously he should be harder on Israel. And obviously he can't and win the race. I'm not looking for him to bail us out, but I am looking at larger appeal. The left has been crushed in this country for generations, the scale of this is useful for socialists to feel like they can do something and succeed and get in the minds of millions of people that things can be better. It's not that complicated. Mamdani is not revolution, he's not toppling the government, and yes, he's not ending the genocide in Palestine. But he is getting people energized for something more. Bernie failed, I volunteered for him, and I wouldn't again. But I don't regret it. AOC was a flash in the pan who's most revolutionary rhetoric came very early on. She should and could be doing better this whole time. Mamdani may fail, but a failed socialist mayor is better than a failed socialist mayoral campaign. If he pulls an AOC, we have yet another batch of volunteers who can be pulled further left by pointing out his capture by the DNC. If he succeeds in getting his campaign promises across, we have a victory on a long line of defeats to uphold, and millions of people's lives having experienced it. I don't believe his campaign is distracting people from trying to end the genocidal machine, the bombs are falling, they money is flowing, unless you illegal-to-say we have so much work to do. Mamdani is currently like a free space in bingo. Having a socialist in the spotlight is far better than not having one, it allows us an easier open to conversations with strangers than before, conversations than can turn far more radical. I can't see how this campaign and possible stint in office don't give us something more than we would have if this were just a normal election.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 18 points 5 days ago

Then we're moving the color spectrum left!

This is literally, at best, just an aesthetic change, but you are glossing over the part where having a disjunction between socialist rhetoric and actions is detrimental to socialism. Bernie calling himself a socialist isn't actually helpful to us when he says "No, not like Cuba, like Denmark." All he is doing is making socialist either mean "liar" or mean nothing at all.

Obviously he should be harder on Israel. And obviously he can't and win the race.

Do you actually have evidence of this? People would have said the same thing about the Primary and then he won. Most Americans country-wide have a disfavorable view of Israel, and New York City is similar, just more polarized.

You're just digging a hole for more people to be misled into being conciliatory socdems who steal valor from actual socialists while disparaging actually socialist positions. There are many countries where the socialist have been much more successful historically than in the US, but they were co-opted and now there are communist parties that are genuinely just nationalist liberals and similar, and their existence is a detriment to the actual left. If you monofocus on colors and shapes and dismiss issues of substance, you won't be able to develop the pattern recognition to see that this is hurting us overall when people pretend to be socialists.