this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2025
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[–] frezik@midwest.social 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Can people learn about dictators that aren't Adolf Hitler? Please?

[–] BeardedBlaze@lemmy.world 8 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

You mean like the father of fascism, Mussolini?

[–] frezik@midwest.social 7 points 3 hours ago

Or Franco or Pinochet or Marcos or Saddam. Hell, put Tito on that list. Or any number of countries that had been subjugated by colonial empires, like India or the Philippines.

There are so many ways that oppressive governments work and ways that protest movements can work effectively against them. Germany 1933 has parallels to today, but it's by no means an exact match, or even a very good match.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 13 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

They actually are.

Non-violent resistances have historically had double the effectiveness of violent resistance movements. Violent resistances generally just get a bunch of people killed and only makes things worse.

The reason is simple. It's a numbers game. Only a few psychopaths want violence and those few are easily dealt with by police. Sometimes they can especially troublesome and need to be dealt with by the military (LA isn't one of those cases, Trump is just an idiot). It's only the very rare case that a violent resistance topples a government and in those cases it's just replacing one group of authoritarian psychos replacing another group. The French revolution ended up with a King being replaced by an Emperor after a whole lot of people died.

Meanwhile a non-violent movement can attract more numbers. You only need single digit percentages of the population to participate in things like general strikes to make an authoritarian regime collapse. But you aren't getting those numbers with a violent resistance, people have families to think about and violent resistances are easily vilified. An authoritarian regime can exercise violence against a violent resistance and kill it. If an authoritarian regime uses violence against a non-violent resistance it's clear to everyone who the villains are and an every broader number of people will participate and subtle and secretive ways.

History bears this out, a violent resistances don't work unless there's foreign backing and even then it's unlikely to succeed. Non-violent resistances have double the probability of success. Non-violent resistances are just about psychopaths that want to burn things down coming up with bullshit rationalizations for it.

[–] ssroxnak@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

They work when the dictator knows the alternative is violence and they are outnumbered. Fun fact, MLK's peaceful protests had armed security provided by an all black militia. They don't teach that in schools because no government wants their people to think that the threat of violence works on government. That being said, it's almost always best to try the peaceful options first.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu 7 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

If not for Napoleon we'd still be all ruled by kings in Europe. You can argue the cost wasn't worth it, but given you didn't even give a famous textbook example of "peaceful protests work", it's safe to say your point is mostly BS.

After what happened in the 40s it's fucking insulting to say that holding hands can save the world.

[–] Gloomy@mander.xyz 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

First thing coming to mind? East Germany 1989.

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

But see, that happened after fascism had already been fought off — so it doesn't count.

/s , since many people here think of moving goalposts as a legitimate tactic for debate.

[–] Gloomy@mander.xyz 1 points 2 hours ago

A bit beside the point, but might I add, that, looking at Eastern Germany today, fashism hadn't and hasn't been fought off.

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)
[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 11 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Well, technically, the Germans could have voted in a majority party on the left in the early 1930s and when that did fail they still could have just not voted for literal nazis.

So, Yeah. That was an option.

[–] ysjet@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

The vote was taken under gunpoint, quite famously, actually. Even then, the leaders of two of the leftmost political parties made a point of voting against it, making the rather valid point that the nazis were going to kill them anyway.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

Okay but before the nazis won the left failed to form a government on three separate elections. Because the left was splintered between the Communists, Social Dems, and Centrists while the Nazi Party swept the entire right.

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[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 23 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Little known fact that the Nazis were at last turned back at Stalingrad by the wittiest picket sign made in the Soviet Union. The sign, which used a mock spelling of Hitler's name, simply read "A doof, Hitler". Many historians believe that the German military never fully recovered from this humiliation.

[–] Gloomy@mander.xyz 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Was that in world revolution II? Or was that a different name? Can't quite remember...

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 57 minutes ago

World day of protest II

[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 6 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Head cocked to the left.

Partial verbal wit in battle.

First point of attack.

Two. Eyes. Paralyse vocal cords with astute observation. Stop the speech centers.

Three. Got to be partially deaf. Shrewd retort to the ears.

Four. Finally, draw a facetious sign. Make it sharp.

Summary prognosis: Consciousness lost in 90 seconds

Martial efficacy: quarter of an hour at best.

Full faculty of recovery from psychological damage, unlikely.

[–] weirdbeardgame@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Discombobulate

[–] AcidicBasicGlitch@lemm.ee 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Fighting back is often the only choice you're left with when Nazis gain power, but I do wish people would keep in mind there's a difference between strategizing and being smart about how and when you fight back vs encouraging individuals to run full speed at the entire U.S. military with a bullseye on their forehead.

Also, if you're bringing fascists and rule of law into this, hopefully you're not wilfully ignoring how they gain power in the first place, or the fact that the Nazis literally used a legal expert that provided them with the legal shield they needed to carry out a genocide without ever breaking the law.

Carl Schmitt

Or that one of Trump's biggest defenders against the "crooked courts" that keep getting in his way, and leaving him with no choice but to act like a dictator, is a Harvard Constitutional Law professor who also just happens to be a Carl Schmitt fanboy.

Adrian Vermeule-OUR SCHMITTIAN ADMINISTRATIVE LAW

Common-Good Constitutionalism Is an Idea as Dangerous as They Come

[–] SleafordMod@feddit.uk 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

This reminds me of a discussion I was having with Hexbear members on Lemmy recently.

I was suggesting that perhaps it makes sense for the UK to have nukes, for self-defence against other nuclear countries like Russia, China, and potentially even the US, given their unpredictable behaviour. People from Hexbear got angry at this suggestion. One of them suggested that it's immoral to have nukes because nukes are "threatening civilians".

Maybe the OP image of this thread is right though: megalomaniacs are not deterred by words, but they are deterred by weapons (such as nukes). Ukraine was invaded because they didn't have enough deterrents. Iran is currently being bombed because I suppose they also didn't have enough deterrents.

[–] TassieTosser@aussie.zone 2 points 7 hours ago

Bet they also think Russia should have nukes to stave off western imperialism

[–] sturmblast@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

All weapons of war threaten civilians.

[–] SleafordMod@feddit.uk 1 points 8 hours ago

Potentially. I think it depends on how they're used. If a country decides to completely disarm itself though, then it's entirely possible that other countries will seek to invade and subjugate.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 12 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Ukraine actually gave their nukes on the promise of future safety. We all saw how that worked out.

[–] SleafordMod@feddit.uk 7 points 21 hours ago (6 children)

Exactly. If Ukraine had their own nukes by the time of 2014, or if they had been part of NATO, then maybe Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine.

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