this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad

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"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"

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Meanwhile On Grad

Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!

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Help, I can't convince people who have more direct experience than me that they are wrong (feddit.nl)
submitted 1 week ago by Fontasia to c/meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
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[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 100 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The thing is that it’s not even really “socialism” that the Chinese guy is is complaining about here. He’s complaining about the authoritarian aspects of the Mainland Chinese government, which is not the same as socialism. And the fact that the tankie can’t understand that is just… I don’t even know what to do with it at this point.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 week ago (3 children)

The CCP's authoritarianism stems in part from their attempt to implement the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. The concept itself is pretty weird.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 41 points 1 week ago (3 children)

But it was never that, from the instant Mao gained any real hold on power in China. He subsumed the entire movement, and fundamentally corrupted it, in much the same way that Stalin did.

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 36 points 1 week ago (1 children)

you gotta understand something about tankies: they think that's a good thing

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Oh, I know. It’s why I tilt at their windmills: to provide the counterpoint, in hopes that more susceptible people will see more than just the dogmatic Socialist Alternative hardliner viewpoint. Genuinely, I think those types do far more damage than they understand, especially in well-educated-median populaces such as Boston, when they bring their fucking Mao + Stalin silk screened Soviet flags to literally any fucking rally. If it pisses me off, as a person who’s very socialist and leaning even more so by the second, then I’m sure it’s alienating FAR more people than it’s calling to the banner.

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

for sure! that shit pisses me off. for a lot of people those symbols of their oppressors. all those say to them are "pick a genocidal freak and get in line" when what most of us are communicating is "what if we didn't with genocidal freaks all the time?"

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[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

How can someone corrupt what was made to be corrupt lol? Lenin and Engle's empowerment of the state against the proletariat could have never ended any other way. It's the same brain rot that right wing Libertarians espouse, just from the other side.

Out of control government, out of control businesses. It's the same picture.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 6 points 1 week ago

I don't know much about the Chinese revolution/civil war, but it wasn't Stalin that turned Soviet Russia authoritarian; it was like that from the start. Stalin simply consolidated power within the already authoritarian framework of one-party rule. It could've been Zinoviev or Trotsky that came out on top and Soviet Russia would still have been an authoritarian hellhole. It might've been a better authoritarian hellhole or a worse authoritarian hellhole, but none of these guys were advocating for abolishing the Cheka (later the GRU) or holding new elections.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 27 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Notably, the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't meant to be an actual dictatorship. Marx saw feudalism as the dictatorship of the aristocracy, capitalism as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, so by analogy socialism (or the prelude to it, at least) would be the dictatorship of the proletariat—rule by the people for the people. It's not meant to be a dictatorship in the way we use that term today.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

They brag about all the theory they've read. Even as they expose how bad their reading comprehension is. And they think it's a flex.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It's amazing that so many people who claim to be socialists miss that despite Marx stating it pretty clearly in one of his shortest and most accessible (and widely read) works.

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[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The dictatorship of the proletariat is just democracy. It's just the people getting to govern themselves instead of a select Elite few. There's really nothing weird about it, the weird thing is thinking that a small closed-knit group of authoritarian Elites can ever implement the dictatorship of the proletariat because by definition they are not the proletariat.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago

It's not "just democracy" when it explicitly prescribes a one party state.

mandates the implementation of direct elections on behalf of and within the confines of the ruling proletarian state party

The democratic part is only within the ruling party, the one that claims to represent the proletariat.

[–] RandomStickman@fedia.io 67 points 1 week ago (5 children)

the region where Hong Kong is

Can't even just say Hong Kong? Does that make us sound too independent or what?

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 20 points 1 week ago

It is kind of sad since Hong Kong hasn't really been independent for years

[–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Maybe they meant Canton?

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

Wouldn't they just say Shenzen then? That's also a huge city many people know, and it's on the mainland.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 week ago

Mentioning Hong Kong means that China is weak

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 8 points 1 week ago

The socialist seapeoples are socialists too.

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[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (36 children)

An actually communist society where everybody has equal influence would be a direct democracy.

Authoritarianism is the enemy of the communist utopia the creators of the ideology dreamed about.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Authoritarianism is the enemy of the communist utopia the creators of the ideology dreamed about.

Can you give an example of this? I'm curious

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The inspiration of Communism came from the idea of Utopian Socialism, which is the free, equal, classless, moneyless utopian society that is the end goal of Communism.

An authoritarian state controlled by a dictator, like the ones .ml tankes worship, can never be classless, free, or equal.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Yeah China produced more billionaires than the USA since the pandemic. Tankies go mum when this is brought up. This is hardly "classless and equal".

[–] match@pawb.social 12 points 1 week ago

tankies seem wildly unaware of deng xiaoping's purge of maoism and leftism in China

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Tankies on China are very much 'just trust me bro'

[–] andybytes@programming.dev 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

China is a state capitalist country. Russia is a capitalist country.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 25 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I don't like how they go around trying to convert people. They are honestly a lot like evangelicals.

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[–] releaseTheTomatoes@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

It's no wonder they suck at "converting" people, they know nothing about how socialism works. Nevermind the fact that they see it as "converting" rather than just having an open discussion, I can almost guarantee these people will immediately swing around the "no actually soviet union was based" or "nono you dont understand, china was mega based they needed to starve out the population" in a discussion once they lose their patience. If you ever get a chance to talk to these people irl, try to have a convo about a stateless society. I can speak from personal experience, when you bring that up, their mind goes blank, and they will start to sound less like a communist and more like a right-winger.

These are the people that give socialism a bad rep.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

For them “socialism” is binary. Either it’s rampant authoritarian dystopia or modern capitalism.

They reject nuance and the varying levels of social policy that can be applied even to capitalist styles of governing.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 week ago (27 children)

I wonder why extremists hate liberals so much. They all talk of liberals with such disdain.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 week ago

Liberalism is the old establishment. They want an extreme alternative to that. So of cause they do that.

[–] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Liberals are capitalists first and foremost. Profit over human rights every time.

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[–] MummysLittleBloodSlut@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The tankie would easily be able to convince their friend if they said China is never going to convert to communism, but communism was tried by lots of indigenous tribes and it worked great.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Tankie is not an anarchist....

[–] MummysLittleBloodSlut@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 week ago

Well there's the problem!

[–] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 10 points 1 week ago

It seems like they both agreed that there is no middle ground/compromise so they’ve got that going for them.

[–] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

I cheerfully install kitchen cabinets made by cheerful Vietnamese communists and then I tell the homeowners that they have helped to support a Marxist regime that was once oppressed by capitalist Americans.

[–] IHateLemmy@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago (3 children)

"Direct" "Raised in America"

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