this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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243
Cycling is ten times more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities (theconversation.com)
submitted 10 hours ago by HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org to c/europe@feddit.org
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[โ€“] Kekzkrieger@feddit.org 27 points 7 hours ago

What else would help is making companies fucking liable (and not just that, their CEOs directly!) for the environment damage they cause.

Oil spill because of neglected maintenance ? Straight to jail for the responsible CEO.

Fake tests for car emmissions? Straight to jail.

The high pay of the C-levels is often argued with the big responsibility they have, when in reality the have none. They should be directly and personally responsbile, thats their job.

[โ€“] HubertManne@piefed.social 18 points 9 hours ago

Im really annoyed they did not do an electric bike thing in the ombudsman bill and just did electric cars.

[โ€“] shekau@lemmy.today 11 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Or at least use e-bike or e-scooter

[โ€“] Anonymaus@feddit.org -3 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

Yeah but production of the battery causes alot of harm to the environment so a classic bike is still far better as it doesn't damage the environment as much

[โ€“] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

In practice, e-bikes open up cycling to more people and for more trips, likely making them far more net positive than regular bikes.

And this is coming from someone who bikes like mad on non-ebikes

[โ€“] sudneo@lemm.ee 4 points 53 minutes ago (1 children)

I went biking in NL last summer (great vacation!) and I was completely amazed by the number of elders biking using ebikes. Ebikes absolutely make cycling available to a vast range of people who wouldn't or couldn't bike otherwise.

I do have and use a traditional bike, but I will consider in the future a (cargo?)ebike.

[โ€“] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 1 points 38 minutes ago* (last edited 38 minutes ago)

A good counter-example is Copenhagen. There, almost nobody uses ebikes in the city. (It would not be faster because there are so many bikes on the road. There is a bridge across the harbour where at rush hour times there pass more than two bikes per second, that's over 5000 vehicles a hour.)

What made the difference was good, safe bike infrastructure. And NL has this, too.

[โ€“] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 1 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

I'm having a hard time finding a source but I read an article claiming that unless you're vegetarian, a traditional bicycle will have a higher carbon footprint (even taking into account the battery manufacturing) than an ebike, due to how inefficient it is to grow and transport food when compared to production of electrical power.

Ebikes are way more efficient than electric cars, too. I calculated that my bike uses about 40 watt hours per mile, compared to about 250-350 for an electric car.

[โ€“] LemmeLurk@lemm.ee 4 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

If you are having a hard time finding a source, it's probably because there is none. Riding short distances burns very little calories and most calories the body needs are from idle consumption. Which the battery has to solve degree too

[โ€“] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 1 points 51 minutes ago* (last edited 51 minutes ago)

Riding a short distance vs riding a long distance is irrelevant. Both systems require an amount of energy per unit of distance. Because the energy is supplied in different ways, there is a different amount of carbon emitted of per unit of energy.

Here's a source, dickface: https://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Ebike_Energy.pdf

[โ€“] bonjour@feddit.org 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

TIL ebike riders don't need food.

[โ€“] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 48 minutes ago)

A watt hour is equal to 0.86 nutritional calories. My estimate of 40 watt hours per mile converts to about 35 kcal. Estimates of the energy taken to pedal a bike are about 30-40 kcal/mile. That checks out!

1 kilowatt hour is equivalent to 860 kcal.

1 kilowatt hour from a coal power plant generates about 1.0-1.1 kg of CO2.

For a typical Western diet, studies suggest that the average emissions associated with food production and transportation can range from about 0.5 to 2.5 kg of CO2 per 1,000 kcal of food consumed. (0.4-2.1 kg of CO2 per 860 kcal)

The ebike generally has a smaller environmental footprint than the analog bike, as most sources of power produce less CO2 than coal power plants and most people eat more meat than necessary, putting them in the higher range of the food CO2 production range.

[โ€“] arakhis_@feddit.org 7 points 8 hours ago

i mean I dont blame the usage of cargo e-bikes for grocery travel by for example a 4 headed family.

thats literally best possible option, isnt it?! Or are you saying you could always use a non motored one for for weekly groceries for a family in for example a hilly area too. I dont know, to me e-bikes are pretty essential in that sense and therefore the final solution for mobility. and you can always use a non motored one for other lighter travels but theyre build.. so usage with ie self-hosted solar panel on your roofs, i dont see the issue.. they use like 2% of total materials a e-car does.

would love to hear your thoughts after that

[โ€“] Owlboi@lemm.ee 5 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

only 10x? cycling has 0 climate impact besides the manufacturing of said bycicle itsself.

electric cars not only require 100x crazier manufacturing but also run on electricity which is made in power plants.

frankly you couldve said a million times more important and it would still be a low ball.

[โ€“] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 42 minutes ago

Electric bikes ruin the climate impact ratio. They are still much better than electric cars tho.

[โ€“] x00z@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

There's tire particles that are released and occasional grease and repairs. So it'll never be 0 climate impact after manufacturing. Just a little nitpick.

But it's still the best choice.

[โ€“] mierdabird@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

Paradoxically there are actually some indications that the calories burned while bicycling, especially from a meat-heavy diet, lead to more carbon emissions per mile than powering an electric car with anything other than coal. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108357_electric-cars-vs-bicycles-which-has-a-higher-carbon-footprint There are still a wide variety of societal benefits to more bicycling but it's not quite accurate say "zero" impact I think.

[โ€“] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 hour ago

We've made fun of that weird propaganda piece when it came out though.

[โ€“] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

That completely ignores the fact that a human being needs at least half an hour to one hour of light exvercise / physical movement daily to stay healthy at all. If you do not cycle or run, you'd need to go to a gym / fitness studio.

Also, if you care at all about CO2 emissions, eating vegan or vegetarian food is the way.

Also, driving 3 or 4 kilometers to a supermarket to get a veggie pizza needs way more energy and CO2 for the drive, thsn for the food itself. You can compute that from the fuel consumption of a car - about 180 Grams of CO2 per person per kilometer, so 1.4 kilograms for 4 kilometers each way.

Also, often the danger of cycling is stressed. That's rubbish because of the health effect of physical exercise - the most dangerous aspect of modern life is lack of exercise, and if you use a bike instead a car you are wayyy less likely to die of cardiovascular problems, which are the real killer, not accidents.

[โ€“] Nalivai@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

The link to the raw data is dead, and it contradicts some other research, and also is an article on something that is called"green car reports". Those are indications of maybe not the most unbiased data

[โ€“] mierdabird@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

"At the extremes, a vegan cyclist will produce only 5% of the emissions a conventional pickup truck will produce, while a meat-loving cyclist will actually produce 42% more GHGs than the most efficient EV. " http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2022/ph240/schutt2/

I'm sure the exact numbers are a little open to interpretation but I've seen it mentioned more than once in different places. That said, I absolutely try to commute on my ebike as much as possible

[โ€“] tivi@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

I saw this page some long time ago. I also find it hard to believe actually. One big thing to note is that even though this is on a Stanford domain, it is probably written by a student "Submitted as coursework for PH240". It is also not peer reviewed, so experts haven't challenged the methodology or results. One criticism which comes to my mind is that the manufacturing of an electric or ICE car usually emits several tons of CO2e, while the bicycle manufacturing emits around 100 kg as cited on the website. Usually the car emissions are then calculated by assuming that the car will be used for some 100 thousand kms, thus the per km CO2 emissions are relatively low. This might not be the case for someone using their car only in cities or not owning a car but using train and bus for long distances.

[โ€“] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It's feels very absurd to see that electric car could be almost twice as efficient with co^2 emissions than vegan riding bicycle, especially considering moving the vehicle 18 times as heavy (driver included).

Would be interesting to see the data used, but looks like the source sheets have been deleted:(

I'd imagine optimizing the bike and rider's physique and diet would likely affect the results dramatically. Dutch style grandma bike is hella lot less efficient than a commuter built for higher speeds, and a rider with more time in the saddle in long term is going to be more efficient on it than a (irr/)regular commuter

[โ€“] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

You're making so many assumptions about the diet and equipment used by your statistically significant cyclist that it's almost cherry-picking, my dude. You realize that, right?

[โ€“] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, that was literally a cherry picking example, showing that in ideal situation, something a person could in theory work for, could be a lot better than the given numbers suggested.

This was all based on assumptions because there was no data available anymore used for that mini study, just laying out thoughts there for my own amusement.

[โ€“] mierdabird@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 hours ago

Definitely a ton if variability in what you'd actually put out depending on bike type, speeds, diet etc

[โ€“] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 4 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

It would be cool if it was an option everywhere. I've cycle commuted. Hell I commuted on a skateboard for two years. But it is not an option where I live now. We can't let mandates get ahead of real world options. Let's make it an option everywhere. The next Dem president will champion this, right?

Right?

Edit just realized this was posted to the europe community. I've lived there a couple of years. You're light years ahead of anywhere else in the world on this stuff. Good job! But don't forget the rest of the world needs at minimum a few decades of massive infrastructure investment to come anywhere near what you already have. If we punish people for not riding bikes where riding a bike is impossible, we only lose support.