this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2025
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[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I worked on a project for Rheinmetall for a bit and feel just fine about it. I would never work in advertising though. What a disgusting industry that destroys minds and societies.

I would still prefer defense industry over advertising or fossil fuels for example.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yes, I spent the last 20 years developing a very particular kind of chemical agent that is tailor made to dissolve an eight-year-old's testicles. But I assure you we only intend to use it in self-defense.

I have no idea how the Israelis got seventy of them.

[–] lowleekun@ani.social 33 points 1 day ago (1 children)

To be honest i think its one of these industries that should never be private. Why do we think it is a good idea to have people profit from war in such a direct way?

[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago

Because wherever there is a possibility to make massive amounts of money, those with power will push and push and push to be in control of it.

[–] tamman2000@lemm.ee 31 points 1 day ago (8 children)

I worked in the analysis tool division of a company that built civilian and military jets when I was fresh out of engineering school.

I didn't feel too bad about it because I was making commercial aircraft quieter and more efficient with my work. Then, the Iraq war started up and they told me I had to work on the engine for the F22. I started looking for a new job that day.

Now I work in planetary defense and don't feel guilty about it...

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[–] valtia@lemmy.world 54 points 1 day ago (5 children)

The number of people defending Lockheed Martin here is staggering, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the apparent makeup of Lemmy's population

I'll make this very, very simple: working for a well-known defense contractor who brags about making bombs is bad. Working for Lockheed Martin is unethical.

Working for a large corporation (Microsoft) that funds or supports wars (Israel) is also bad, but not as bad as Lockheed Martin, the company that actually builds the bombs that are bought with the dollars that Microsoft sends to Israel

Working for any company that could theoretically contribute economically to a war is bad, but not as bad as the previous two examples and is more or less unavoidable for working people

Paying any kind of tax (especially in the US) ultimately funds wars, and so isn't good either, but it's not as bad as any of the three above options, and no one can avoid it (except billionaires of course)

[–] frezik@midwest.social 29 points 1 day ago

To add, "There's no ethical consumption under capitalism" applies to your labor, as well. The phrase is meant to provide perspective, and shouldn't be used as an excuse to do whatever.

I'm not particularly happy with everything the company I work for does. Especially the actions of the people at the top. But it's not notably worse than any other Fortune 500.

Lockheed, though? It's bad in a more fundamental way.

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[–] brendansimms@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We’re all guilty and we should all go on strike

[–] jjfolken@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

Defense contractor... Strike... I see what you did there

[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 59 points 2 days ago (17 children)

I had a friend in a difficult position, deciding between high pay at Buy N Large or the opportunity to work on insanely cool shit for Death Inc.

Ultimately he chose Death Inc, and the reasoning was along the lines of "This might kill a hundred people, but at least it'll kill them specifically. I can't even conceptualize the harm Amazon et al. do on a global scale to entire populations without even trying".

Made me think. I didn't have a very good answer to that.

[–] valtia@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago (2 children)

those bombs will kill far more than just a hundred people, far more than he can ever conceptualize. the consequences of those deaths will shape the world more than the extra microsecond an engineer could shave off of an internal Amazon function

[–] BussyCat@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

The argument the person was saying is that we already have big bombs that do catastrophic damage, the R&D is how do you make those bombs more targeted so they have less collateral damage.

Now whether that will actually lead to less deaths or will just cause the bombs to be used in places they otherwise wouldn’t be used with the same amount of collateral damage is unknown.

But it brings up a bit of a utilitarian dilemma of “is it ethical to work on weapons if it leads to an overall reduction of collateral damage to civilians”

It doesn’t have a necessarily correct answer

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[–] Prox@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Also, "if I don't make this thing that will kill a hundred people specifically, they'll just use something that kills more people with less precision / more casualties."

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[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 66 points 2 days ago (2 children)

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department", says Wernher Von Braun.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Don't say that he's hypocritical
Say rather that he's apolitical

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Making rockets wasn’t his department either.

The US wouldn’t let Von Braun go testify at Dachau. To this day there’s a lot of whitewashing. But he knew how those rockets were made.

Arthur Rudolph’s crimes were so egregious, that after letting him build the Saturn 5, we decided to ask him firmly to leave the country. In 1984.

[–] xiii@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I volunteer in my free time so that more Russian occupiers will be eliminated. I’m very proud of myself.

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[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children)

Not all countries are the USA btw. Most countries use their defense budget to actually defend themselves from external very real threats.

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[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

Working for Social media companies or health insurance companies isn’t any better as far as destroying the world and mass murdering people by proxy

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[–] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 96 points 2 days ago (3 children)

This is one of the few reasons I dislike living in the area I do, defense contractors are basically the only ones nearby hiring for engineering roles. Luckily I work remotely, but if that ever changed and I couldn't find another remote position, I'd probably have to move. I'm not about to sell my soul.

[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Same for me, except IT.

Its pretty much either work at The Base or Geek Squad. One of these options pays enough to leave the area.

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[–] whats_all_this_then@programming.dev 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"I refuse to work in defense. I'd rather my work wasn't used to blow anyone up" is a line I've used in multiple job interviews. I like to think the hell I end up going to at least has chilly weather and/or really good AC.

[–] TheRealKuni@midwest.social 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Ah, you’re going to visit Hell, Michigan.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 day ago

I completely lost respect for an intern when I found out he was going to a weapons company next.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago

The education system functions to indoctrinate, privilege, and filter.

If there's one thing that I learned from grad school, it's that talented people will be made dependent and subservient to death and doom for money... But more importantly because that's the social system they've been funneled into. They don't see any alternatives.

[–] Professorozone@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago (3 children)

And which benevolent corporations IS acceptable to work for?

[–] carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 2 days ago (2 children)

no ethical consumption under capitalism etc etc but… there are companies that don’t make a profit by murdering middle eastern people

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 35 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (57 children)

Why?

Of all the tools for oppression and murder, advanced weaponry is pretty low on the list for what actually makes the murdering happen. If you work for a company that does any kind of business with any repressive regime (ie most companies above a certain size), the simple fact that you're working for a cog in enabling the economy of the repressive regime to pay its cops, its soldiers, its secret police and informants and massive bureaucracy, is as much as a contribution as "I was .1% of designing a multirole jet that's 10% better than the previous multirole jet"

Hell, anyone making steel of the correct grade to go into small arms probably kills more innocent people, by that standard, than your average person working for Western defense contractors.

[–] makeshiftreaper@lemmy.world 60 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It almost sounds like you might be suggesting that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism

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