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'My school abandoned me': California university cancels pro-Palestinian student's commencement speech
(www.middleeasteye.net)
this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2024
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I really, really hate that it feels like there's a new ethnicity it's ok to distrust/suppress/wish harm upon. The article talks about official efforts to ban Pro-Palestinian voices, including (ironically) Jewish Voice for Peace. I am so much happier on Lemmy because there are far fewer posts with opinions like "Palestinians are only getting what they deserve because of Hamas" etc. Even though people have disagreed with me (albeit not often) I have yet to debate anyone making those kinds of arguments.
I'm frustrated waiting for the rest of the world to catch up and realize that there's no "ok race" to assume is some brand of evil. There's no ethnicity that it's bad to advocate freedom, happiness, and healthiness for. E.g. even though I post a lot about Israel, I take time frequently to make it absolutely clear that I know Israel doesn't represent all Jews and that judging based on ethnicity or birthplace/residence is wrong.
Dude, I fully agree.
My eyes have really been opened.
Anti-muslim sentiment has been going on for a really long time. I thought it was just a few racist uncles who overreacted to 9/11.
But now that the propaganda and suppression is in full swing, it's become abundantly clear. It's not just normal people, it's a coordinated disinformation campaign.
Lemmy is still a relatively safe and reasonable space.
Anti-Muslim, anti-Mexican, anti-gay/trans, anti-atheist, anti-women, anti-etc.
I'm glad people like you've noticed. It's been going on for a long time and it legit makes you feel crazy when you realize it and it still doesn't help when you realize scholars have been studying and writing about this stuff for hundreds of years.
Mmmm... some of Lemmy. I use a script to block some instances.
Lol I swear hexbear is a psyop designed to radicalise LGBTQ people and turn them against the moderate middle, thereby creating exactly the villain the gender/sexuality wedge issue calls for.
...What?
Oh those aren't the instances you block?
...Yes. I do block Hexbear. That's not what I was stumped by.
I mean the community is pretty clearly astroturfed, as otherwise no such group could exist while fundamentally contradicting itself. Being gay and supporting Putin just does not make any rational sense. For all their talk of CIA psy ops left and right, I can't help but see a pot calling the kettle black.
And I would argue that support for Trump is clearly astroturfed, also. Reddit basically nurtured the community leading up to and throughout his presidency, then it spread from there.
It's worse than you imagine. The MAGA cult grew on reddit, with permission and dare I say nurturing from reddit admin.
It was more Facebook than anything and then it spilled over to Reddit and other places.
It's always been this way. It's just now that people are really paying attention, and we have the internet to thank for that.
Anti-muslim sentiment grows easily here because many of the groups who would normally speak out against intolerance are the same groups that would not be tolerated in a Muslim society.
Unfortunately you can find similar arguments in some corners of Lemmy regarding violence against Israeli civilians. So I’m not sure how much better it truly is here.
This conflict has caused a disturbing number of people to suddenly think that hate, abuse, or even murder and kidnapping are acceptable when directed at people they associate with the appropriate ethnic, racial, or national group.
When it happens I just try to remind folks that while it's ethical to oppose many Israeli policies, there are tons of Jewish dissenters who are allies. Basically every time people will agree. One of my most powerful examples is Breaking the Silence, an organization that gathers, confirms, and publishes testimonials from IDF veterans about the reality of life in Occupied Palestinian Territory. 100% Jewish, and Jewish soldiers no less, and still 100% dedicated to making sure the truth is known no matter the cost.
There are many of us (I'm in Israel and involved in anti-war and anti-genocide activism). And most of us lost people on October 7th, some of whom were peace activists (look up Vivian Silver, for example). Since then we have also lost Palestinian friends and partners in activism in the ethnic cleansing campaign currently going on in Gaza.
It is true that we are a minority, but it is so hard facing discrimination from both sides - I have a pro-Palestine sticker on my computer, but it is in Hebrew. So when I'm in Israel, I get harassed about it. When I'm not in Israel, anti-semites who can't read it assume it's something pro-israel (or just Jewish).
It feels very lonely sometimes, so thanks very much, @GrymEdm.
I have an American Jewish friend who, long story short, has been treated very badly by her Ashkenazi family since deciding to support Palestinian human rights. I've seen what it costs Jews to speak up, and so I have a lot of respect for dissenters who act with their conscience in spite of the target it puts on their backs. It's a difficult spot to be in, and I hope you can find some peace and reward in staying true to your ethics even in hard times.
Isn't this just human rights? The language that's used in this conflict is a bit confusing, for example one does not have to particularly like Palestinians as a group to be against the ethnic cleansing of Palestine or the violations of human rights and international law perpetrated by Israel on a daily basis, yet they are called "pro-Palestinian". Of course some accusations of antisemitism are intentionally deceptive to silence opposition to Israel's regime (or labelling opposition as "pro-Hamas"), but even the conflict overall is labelled as Israel vs. Palestine when in reality it's Israel vs. international law. Maybe this is a hasbara narrative, idk.
The kicker here is that by equating opposition to genocide with antisemitism it means that perpetrating genocide is a trait inherent in Jews, which is hella racist.
Anyway your "Palestinian human rights" phrase made me want to ask what you and others think, not trying to bash you or anything. For example, when the U.S. invaded Vietnam, those opposed to the war were called "anti-war protesters", not "pro-Vietnam protesters".
You fuckers have balls of steel.
Even if you’re a female, you still have balls of steel, And my utmost respect.
It cannot be easy at all to try to stand up for something like that it Israel of all places.
Thanks for doing what you do. Most people have never tried taking a moral stand on something so controversial in their own community, so they may not know how difficult it truly is.
I am lucky enough to exist in a very pro-peace bubble, so I don’t face such consequences. But I have incredible respect for those who do so despite their circumstances. And it is people like you who have the greatest opportunity to change the course of things.
I appreciate you.
Good advice. Sometimes it’s hard to keep my frustration from overwhelming me when I see people saying such hateful things but it always helps to understand where people are coming from and respectfully point to the things that may challenge the foundation of that hate.
You're not alone at all in that. Life in the Information Age is too good at teaching folks how to cope with frustration lol.
I prefer the “not in my name” jews as my example.
85% of Israelis want Netanyahu out. Protests in the tens of thousands in the streets of Israel.
I post this whenever I see someone say “fuck Israel.” I think they mean “fuck Netanyahu.”
They weren't protesting the treatment of Palestinians:
Are you sure about that? 21% of Israelis are Palestinian.
No, they mean fuck Israel. It can only exist as a Jewish state because all non-Jews have been stripped of their rights. Make it a secular state with equal rights for everyone, or allow the Palestinians their own state with no Israeli occupation. The current situation is straight up apartheid
Do you mean previous nationality? All Israeli citizens are granted the same rights under Israeli Citizenship Law.
Israeli's Supreme Court ruled that Israeli nationality is not a thing. Israel is a Jewish state since 2018, and Israeli Arabs are second class citizens.
This link was one of the sources from yours: https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy
If only Jewish people have the right to self-determination, then all Israeli citizens do not have the same rights.
You’re misunderstanding the conversation.
The comment I responded to said “they were stripped of their rights.” That’s simply not true. It is true that they are stripped of their nationality, and in that, I agree with you that the rights are not the same.
Israeli citizens have the same state rights in regards to government voting and state services.
You're basically saying "those aren't the rights I was talking about".
They do not have the right to self-determination since 2018, thus they do not have the same rights. Several of the rights of non-Jews were stripped away with the 2018 law. Not all of them, but some very significant ones.
They have similar rights, and share many of the same rights, but Jewish people have more rights than non-Jews in Israel. Not just in practice, but per the law.
No, I’m saying the comment that claimed they are “stripped of their rights” is false. You’ve cited a difference in the law that I recognize, and disagree with. There are no limitations in their participation in government or government services. If there were, I’d agree their rights were “stripped.”
There’s imbalance for sure. Being accurate allows people to recognize the problems and address them. Being sensational creates ignorance.
I think you are misunderstanding, "stripped of their rights" does not necessarily mean they lose all rights, or certain rights in particular, it simply that they lose some rights. They lost some rights, therefore they have been stripped of their rights.
So we should say all Americans have been stripped of their rights, because women cannot access life-saving medical care in the event of a complication of a late-term pregnancy?
C’mon. You’re arguing semantics to justify sensationalism. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms that you could aim at the Israeli government. Selecting choice words to exaggerate only obscures the point, fuels outrage, and perpetuates ignorance.
In a time when we can’t trust most news sources, it’s become more important to be accurate than ever.
We can say that all American cis women have been stripped of their rights, yes. However more accurately this would be on a state by state basis.
We are arguing semantics, but you're the one justifying a sensationalist response to an accurate statement.
Accuracy looks like “American cis women have been stripped of their right to abortion” or “non-Jewish Israelis have been stripped of their right to recognize previous nationality.”
“Stripped of their rights” implies all rights. If you can’t see the difference, then you’re unknowingly part of the misinformation.
No, it doesn't. You can lost rights without losing all your rights. All it implies is that more than 1 right was removed, and that it was done so unwillingly.
Please back this statement up with some sound reasoning.
It seems more likely that you are stubbornly refusing to admit you were wrong about something very minor.
I don’t know what else I can say. You clearly don’t understand the implications of the term “stripped of their rights.”
Please provide a definition or rationalisation that supports your position. I've looked myself, and all the ones I've found make no mention of "all" rights being removed. Here's one: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/strip-of
I think you don't know what else to say because you are wrong and have nothing to support your position. It is you who clearly doesn't understand, but I think that's more stubbornness than anything else.
This is why I always try to specify Likud.
He’s even lost half of their support according to the last November’s poll. Not to mention they only have 23% of the popular support now. It’s dwindled in the last decade.
Nah, fuck Israel. Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing and has continued the ethnic cleansing to this day. They won't stop until Palestinians only exist as a people in exile.
Fuck America, too. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Veitnam, Iraq, Nicaragua, Guatamala, Indonesia, now Palestine. American democracy has run on blood since the slaughter of Native Americans in its infancy.
America was founded on genocide and slavery. The overwhelming majority of Americans are against both practices today.
England, Mongolian China, Rome, and Germany committed the same acts attempting world domination. Their populations are very different now.
A nation’s history does not define its current occupants.
Israel is doing it now. This isn't history
If what Netanyahu was doing is what the Israeli people wanted, then he would have their support.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/