But they conveniently leave out that it costs money to do anything with AI. It's more like "open to anyone with a credit card." The vast majority of people don't have computers powerful enough to run generative AI models locally, and even then, server farms with a billion GPUs will always produce better results

This means that people have to rely on corporate platforms where you buy tokens that you use to get pulls at the various AI slop slot machines, hoping you get something decent. The mechanics more closely resemble a gacha game than any kind of artistic process

By contrast, learning how to draw, animate or make 3D models costs nothing. There's free tutorials and tools everywhere, and you can also just pirate commercial ones if you want

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[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Running one of these genai art models really isn't that hard and doesn't require incredible top-end hardware.

That isn't really a defense of it, but it does allow some people who otherwise do not have artistic skills to make pictures.

Like, I have aphantasia and can't visually conceptualize anything. Art is very hard for me. I don't think it hurts anyone for me to make a character portrait for my dnd character using automatic1111. Even using an unethical model, I would never pay an artist for a dnd character portrait - it is too expensive for me and while I like having a nice character portrait and it helps me have a better conceptualization of my character, it is not worth the time or money to get a real artist to make one. If not for genai, I'd just go on deviantart and use one somebody already made or like draw a really shitty one.

Plus, if we're going to say software piracy is OK but art piracy isn't, thats a little hypocritical. Software piracy can definitely hurt software devs (especially ones working for smaller companies and even moreso for indie devs) in roughly the same way that art piracy hurts artists.

As a rule I think software piracy is fine if it doesn't hurt anyone (i.e. if you wouldn't have paid for it and it's for noncommercial use). I don't see how art is all that much different. Its completely different if you're using any of this stuff for commercial use to take work away from people who need it and replace it with shitty AI stuff - but I'm not talking about that.

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Plus, if we're going to say software piracy is OK but art piracy isn't, thats a little hypocritical. Software piracy can definitely hurt software devs (especially ones working for smaller companies and even moreso for indie devs) in roughly the same way that art piracy hurts artists.

This is BS how can you even believe its the same? Piracy is about reproduction as is. You download a software, you use it as its made.

AI art is fundamentally different, you're not using it as is, you're taking it, distilling the authors intent and work and claiming as your own, often for a profit.

Again compared that to software piracy, please I hope you're not suggesting the average person who downloaded Photoshop in 2015 was actualy hacking it so they could resell it for $50 called it "TotallyMyOwnPhotoEditingSoftware Pro HD Max 12".

Embarrassing to even write this shit. Barely above "you wouldn't download a car".

Piracy doesn't hurt small devs. This is a stupid myth propagated by the AAA shills. Small devs are far more likely to benefit from piracy since it gives better word of mouth. If someone isn't going to spend $5 or $10 to buy a game to begin with then at least they're very likely to spread the game around, through communities or social media, if your game is actualy good.

Like this is discourse from like 15 years ago I kid you not. Its been debunked for at least since the early days of Steam.

[–] doublepepperoni@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I wasn't really thinking about artisanal indie software creators in my OP, I just meant pirating Adobe products, which I assume everyone here is totally okay with

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 2 points 2 days ago

That was more towards the comment I replied to really, they pretty much try to clutch pearls over "but what about mah ~~smol movie producer~~ ~~smol indie band~~ indie game devs" as if the year is 2010. We've been here with the movie industry and the music industry which is why it triggered me.

Trying to claim piracy can hurt but its fine, therefore AI art is also fine despite hurting people. The original premise is fault, piracy doesn't hurt anyone except large businesses, and that is being very generous "hurting" being oh no the CEO needs to earn a smaller bonus this year.

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago

idk to me it's more like really advanced collage.

it's piracy if i download five games. it's still piracy if i rip assets out of them and put them in another game, even an original one. imo that's fine until i try to sell it, and depending on who i pirated off of it ought to be fine even if i am selling it, but of course the law doesn't agree.

[–] Comrade_Bones@hexbear.net 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

As someone who also has aphantasia, but still likes to draw sometimes, this feels so strange for me to read.

I would never pay an artist for a dnd character portrait - it is too expensive for me and while I like having a nice character portrait and it helps me have a better conceptualization of my character, it is not worth the time or money to get a real artist to make one. If not for genai, I'd just go on deviantart and use one somebody already made or like draw a really shitty one.

If you don't consider a drawing of your character to be worth any amount of money that you'd be willing to pay an artist, why do you feel the need to have one at all? And to say you'd go to an artist's page and use one of their character drawings as your own, something that artists famously hate, means that you don't even want to have a better conceptualization of your character since the drawing would just be of someone else's character. Also, I do think that any drawing you make on your own would be infinitely more charming than any generic overly polished piece of art generative AI could spit out.

[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Just because it has value to me, but imo that is not monetary value. And having that picture accurately represent how I want that character to be, even if it has weird eyes or an extra finger, is a benefit to me and helps me be immersed in the game. I guess like I'd pay someone money for that, but I wouldn't be willing to pay what their time is worth, you know? Like 10 bucks or something is not appropriate for someone spending an hour making a nice illustration - more like 75 would be appropriate, and that is too much for me.