this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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chapotraphouse
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Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Slop posts go in c/slop. Don't post low-hanging fruit here.
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All you said was "theory is bad because it's old", you didn't substantiate or contextualize anything, theory written 200 years ago as if age is automatically an argument against an idea, you've confused rhetoric for substance
So we're moving on from efficacy of theory to MY EFFICACY, interesting, also I'm the biggest Zohran supporter on this site, to the point I got banned a couple weeks ago over it, makes me think you didn't read my previous original comment
Zohran is an example of why theory matters and how a materialist analysis of power and politics can generate political energy where there was none before, Zohran is not a lib, the man follows the mass line religiously and zoomed in right away on food, transit and rent as the crucial municipal issues from which to organize grassroots working class support without falling into the machine politics trap
The man did his homework, maybe you should too, if you're such a fan
I remember talking to you about that ban lmao, it's crazy for you to be hit with the "what are you doing more than Zohran," after having to run a 1v20 in his favor mere weeks ago and you're actively in favor of him.
lol the gall of some people, I swear
I'm not online enough to follow bannings of random people 🤷♂️
I mean, no one implied you should have followed it, I tend not to but was mid discussion with Cyborg over the matter when the ban occurred which made things difficult. I do arguably spend too much time on this site during downtime but even I don't notice most bans, just hard not to when its mid conversation. I still do find it funny that that part of the argument—against arguably hexbear's staunches Zohran defender—was that they aren't doing more than Zohran. Cyborg, from my few interactions, believes what Zohran is doing is great and necessary under current conditions. There are criticisms but general alignment. That was something more of a "damn, that's crazyy," towards cyborg since I think with that context it is quite funny.
Yeah my bad. I think we actually agree on a lot and I'm just not coming across well. This place makes me feel dumb and sometimes I don't feel welcome here.
Fair, the core of my confusion is I am unable to draw the line used as argument against theory.
I am genuinely confused what about it you're trying to say is wrong about the theory. I used the Mao example earlier because it's an example of someone doing the type of explanation I thought would generally help others here understand your position better.
I need to be more clear. I'm not anti-theory and I am not pushing a specific criticism of any theory. What I am trying to say is that I get frustrated at people dunking on electoralism, implying the alternative is this kind of book club leftist that we have seen for decades.
I'm cautiously optimistic. Yeah I get politicians tend to co-opt talking points and then turn out to be different. But that's not everyone and I know there are good people out there who aren't going to AOC us. Maybe Zohran is a good one? Maybe he is another AOC?
Instead of endlessing banging that drum of caution can we find some constructive ways to handle that potential situation?
I think you need to cool down a bit.
We're agreeing on Zohran. My point is he got what, 10k people out to canvass and talk about freezing the rent while also giving a giant middle finger to the Dem establishment machine? That's actually doing something vs. The endless left pontificating over what someone said in a book that only nerds read.
I've been cool, you're the one calling me a nerd
Again, Zohran is a nerd that was inspired by those books, if you're under the impression that he just manifested his political abilities out of thin air and intuition, then you're misguided
The ability to build an effective analytic framework and policy map come from those books leftists "pontificate" about, you don't get 50k people canvassing and phone banking without the knowledge to comprehend and simplify complex ideas, that takes education and THEORY
OK I hear you... but also people don't have to read thousands of pages of dense theory to become left. If that us true then the left is cooked forever. That's not sustainable.
I shouldn't have to read every word of every theorist to know that bosses are screwing over workers. That's actually not a hard concept to grasp. I became a leftist because I saw all the bull that we deal with in day to day life and saw that the entire mainstream political system has no solutions to it. It was the Dems failing to do anything that really materially helped. I think you have this backwards... material conditions can push people to want to learn more and get more involved in the left. But also don't be the people that shit on anyone left of Mayor Pete and expect people to suddenly want to join your reading group!
I imagine a majority of Hexbear has never read Kapital in full, but they're still leftists. The point isn't that every leftist should tons of theory, but if you're in a position to actually make change (like Zohran) you should have read quite a bit of theory, so you can put that theory in action, or even maybe write that theory yourself (like Stalin, Mao, Lenin, etc.).
Think about the Vangaurd/Proletariat split. Some people understanding theory is important, so that theory can be applied and applied correctly, but the vast majority only need a simpler understanding so they can spend their time at the task at hand.
You don't need theory to become a leftist, but applying theory can make you a more effective leftist, and strengthen ideological cohesion.