this post was submitted on 03 May 2025
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Today I Learned

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[–] ImperialATAT@lemmy.world 172 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I think the groundbreaking part was Dan O'Bannon’s note in the Alien script that gave us more amazing characters in Aliens.

“At the start of Dan O'Bannon’s script for Alien, there’s a note that few other screenplays contain: “The crew is unisex and all parts are interchangeable for men or women.” It’s a line that fundamentally altered the nature of the film, affecting everything from the presentation of its characters to the way Ridley Scott and his team approached casting, and it was certainly for the best.”

source here

[–] Chip_Rat@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Haha I read that originally as "they be robots and have removable arms and legs that fit erybody else."

That's fascinating though. I must say I like Aliens much better. I rarely revisit Alien but I might do in the near future.

[–] SpongyAneurism@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 21 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Imho, they are different genres altogether.

Alien is a real horror-movie, while Aliens leans more towards the action-movie genre, of course retaining horror elements, but it doesn't quite play on the body-horror and fear of the unknown as much as the first part does.

[–] lagoon8622@sh.itjust.works 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Alien is art. Aliens is a schlocky action movie (nothing wrong with schlocky action movies, but it's just a completely different thing)

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I've watched Alien in the background dozens of times, had forgotten how it really went. My wife had never seen it, no clue.

She sat like this, edge of the couch, glued to the screen the whole time. And I came away with my view of the movie totally refreshed. A work of art indeed!

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[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 7 points 6 days ago

So you're saying that one's a bug-hunt, and the other's a stand-up fight?

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[–] GraniteM@lemmy.world 94 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I knew I made this for a reason

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[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 123 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It might not seem like it now but Vasquez was a groundbreaking character at the time.

[–] Hylactor@sopuli.xyz 15 points 6 days ago (4 children)
[–] kata1yst@sh.itjust.works 151 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Badass female grunt soldier treated by her fellow soldiers as a soldier first and foremost.

[–] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 87 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (8 children)

She has the most iconic line from my youth.

Some soldier, saying to Vasquez who's doing pull-ups: hey Vasquez, you ever been mistaken for a man To which she replies: no, have you?

Also the way

shedies is bad ass.

I mean next to Ripley, the android and the little girl, she's the most memorable character in that movie.

[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 30 points 6 days ago (1 children)

"Game over man!" makes Bill Paxton as memorable.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

Both Paxton and Rodriguez were the highlights of the rest of the cast. Paxton is the guy showing us how we ought to feel, that this is indeed terrifying and fucked up. “Game over man!” is definitely one of the most memorable lines from the film, but a film having two absolutely badass women in Ripley and Vasquez that stood out because they were badasses, and not because they were specifically planted as women to have women be badasses, was great writing - probably thanks to the script being written for “unisex” characters.

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (7 children)

She has the most iconic line from my youth.

I got gifted a 4K Blu-ray player for Christmas. Immediately bought Aliens (my favourite movie of all time) then sat down with my older kids to watch it with popcorn etc.

There was such a buzz in the room when she delivered that line.

Have to recommend the 4K Blu-ray experience if you're a fan. The detail honestly shocked me.

Edit:

I mean next to Ripley, the android and the little girl, she's the most memorable character in that movie.

The casting is great.

I think Paul Riser did a great job as the slimy company man Burke. He was very believable.

Michael Bien was great as ~~Hudson~~ Hicks too. The exchange between himself, Ripley and Burke about nuking the site was great.

[–] Tugboater203@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I recall an interview in which Paul Reiser said his mom was cheering his on screen death at the premier

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[–] TheEEEdiot@sh.itjust.works 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Bill Paxton played Hudson. Michael Bien played Hicks. Game over man.

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[–] TastyWheat@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

"You always were an asshole, Gorman."

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[–] anachrohack@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago

Michelle Rodriguez wouldn't have a career without this woman

[–] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 48 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Badass strong female character with more depth than what was normally portrayed in Hollywood. Ripley being another.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Ripley and Vasquez are antithetical. Vasquez's strength comes from enbracing masculinity. She's in a traditionally male profession, she's stereotypically, "butch," (short hair, muscular, etc.), she's aggressive, and she belittles Ripley with her male peers. The film even calls attention to this early on ("Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?"..."No. Have you?"). Meanwhile, Ripley is similarly a strong woman, but she doesn't need to reject femininity to show strength. She weeps when she learns that her daughter died and later develops a maternal connection with Newt, but she's more than capable of picking up a gun and giving orders when needed. She's also in a traditionally male profession (which she demonstrates when she uses the power loader), but she doesn't let that define her. She never seeks the approval of the male characters or behaves like them to achieve her goals.

I've heard it argued that Vasquez is a sort of queer coded sheild for Ripley, allowing audiences to enjoy Ripley as a strong female character without worrying about her sexuality ("No, Ripley's not a lesbian; that's a lesbian."), but I don't think that's fair to either character. Vasquez is a heroic character in her own right, not wanting abandon teammates and ultimately sacrificing herself so that others can escape. But the film is about motherhood, and Vasquez, just like all the other marines, isn't capable of maternal behavior. I think in the end, Vasquez's character is meant to demonstrate that Ripley is a bad-ass because of her femininity, not in spite of it.

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[–] libra00@lemmy.world 29 points 6 days ago

Aliens didn't exactly break new ground in strong female characters (except perhaps with Ripley as lead), but it was an early very popular movie that had strong female characters who weren't dependent upon men to save them so it was pretty good for representing women as something other than Hollywood's standard of the time. Not great mind you because the only way either of them managed to achieve that is by making both of them (especially Vasquez, Ripley at least had some nuance) act like traditional male characters, but it was a big step.

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[–] Enzy@lemm.ee 59 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Brown face? That's just a tan

[–] NIB@lemmy.world 60 points 6 days ago (2 children)

The american obsession with melanin levels is insane. Why cant they be normal and be racist to people who live over the next hill, like us enlightened europeans.

[–] sowitzer@lemm.ee 18 points 6 days ago

That’s offensive. Those over the hill have bushier eyebrows. They are totally different and meant to be hated.

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[–] mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 6 days ago (4 children)

I think the point is that if it was important for the character to be Hispanic, they could have hired a Hispanic actor for it. Her being Hispanic didn’t have any meaningful impact to the story, so why not just let her character be white? If they did it to make the film more appealing to Hispanic viewers, then surely an actually Hispanic actor would have been a better fit. White actors have historically been given distinctly non-white roles just because Hollywood is afraid of melanin.

The history of it goes all the way back to old black and white films, with movies like Dragon Seed or The Teahouse of August Moon, which both had major asian roles filled by popular white actors. The unfortunate part is that they often aren’t respectful when they do it; It often ends up being a caricature of the race instead. Anyone who has seen Breakfast at Tiffany’s will know what I’m talking about. Or hell, there are even cases of outright blackface, like a white actor playing Othello in the 1965 movie. Many people have criticized Al Pacino’s accent in The Godfather as offensive, bordering on caricature.

If you want more recent examples, we could point at Jake Gyllenhaal playing a middle-eastern prince in Prince of Persia. Or Johnny Depp playing a Comanche caricature in The Lone Ranger. Another good example is Scarlett Johansson being given the role of Matoko Kusanagi, in Ghost in the Shell. The movie is based on a Japanese anime, and is based in Japan. But Hollywood refused to hire a Japanese actor to play the role, and instead gave it to the whitest white woman who has ever whited.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

To Be Fair

Johnny Depp's character was considered insane by the other native americans in the film, who were played by actual native americans like Saginaw Grant. It's not much better but the film still doesn't pretend he represents them.

Didn't Gods of Egypt have an all white cast and 1 black guy playing as... the gods of egypt...?

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

Thanks for pointing out that there's always more than one lens to look at the world through.

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[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Masamune Shirow himself confirmed that Kusanagi was a mass production model on the outside to blend in and not have her harvested for parts, like a custom body would be.

Also the whole fucking theme of the franchise is “what is a soul (ghost)”. Kusanagi has canonically swapped “shells” multiple times, is it a ship of Theseus thing or is she still the same person?

But this is an argument I can’t win, so I’ll leave this here and disappear 🫠

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Its almost like the people who come up with this batty shit never actually leave the basement, so they don't understand suntans.

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[–] jaemo@sh.itjust.works 50 points 6 days ago

I wrote an article about how Jim Carrey used greenface (very offensively too) during the filming of "The Mask", but hardly anyone cared.

He's not even an amphibian!

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 69 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I see from the comments that apparently it was makeup. I wonder to what extent this is makeup, since after all, ALL actors on set wear make up. I have a similar skin complexion and if I sunbathe for a week I'll look like Vasquez too.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 6 days ago

Well, to be fair, blackface is also a type of makeup

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 14 points 6 days ago

If an actor loses weight or works out to be more muscular, that's commitment to their craft.

If they lay out in the sun, that's cheating!

[jk]

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

The fact that they tanned her is not the issue. The fact that they tanned her to play an ethnicity she is not, is the problem. Especially during an era where people of that ethnicity were lucky to be typecast in something.

I know it's before this time, but Martin Sheen had to change his name to get work in Hollywood because nobody would hire someone with a Hispanic sounding name.

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[–] AfroMustache@lemmynsfw.com 75 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Small correction: she was John Connor's foster mother in Terminator 2 not step mother

[–] FinalRemix@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Correction: his foster parents are dead.

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[–] MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world 42 points 6 days ago (1 children)
  • Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?

  • No, have you?

She was bad ass

That movie is one of the best sources for quotes.

"This little girl survived ... with no weapons and no training. Right?"

"That's great! WHY DON'T WE PUT HER IN CHARGE?!?"

[–] Davel23@fedia.io 29 points 6 days ago (3 children)

She's also in Titanic, but in a very small role as an Irish mother.

[–] BigTrout75@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Just curious, is it offense that she dyed her hair reddish and has Hollywood freckles for the Irish role?

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

Irish. Trying to muster one fuck to give but just can't manage it unfortunately.

Side note: She's a great actress.

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[–] UpperBroccoli@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 6 days ago

I think shes got a company now that is making extra comfy bras.

[–] HappyTimeHarry@lemm.ee 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Im pretty sure thats just a tan, but its interesting that her imdb page says "Jenette Goldstein is a true chameleon"

[–] felixwhynot@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (10 children)

Was it makeup? Lighting can do a lot too…

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