this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2025
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Summary

A new Innofact poll shows 55% of Germans support returning to nuclear power, a divisive issue influencing coalition talks between the CDU/CSU and SPD.

While 36% oppose the shift, support is strongest among men and in southern and eastern Germany.

About 22% favor restarting recently closed reactors; 32% support building new ones.

Despite nuclear support, 57% still back investment in renewables. The CDU/CSU is exploring feasibility, but the SPD and Greens remain firmly against reversing the nuclear phase-out, citing stability and past policy shifts.

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[–] JATtho@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

I'll just comment about one thing that keeps popping up in the discussions: grid-level storage. There is no such thing yet really that would last a full day cycle, and the 100MW or so units we are building are mostly for frequency stabilization and for buying enough time to turn on a base-load plant when the renewables drop out. I'm not arguing against storage - it is absolutely needed.

The problem is the scale, which people don't seem to get. Largest amount of energy we can currently repeatedly store and release is with pumped hydro, and the locations where this is possible are few and far between. Once the batteries reach this level-of-capacity, then we have a possibility to use them as grid-level storage that lasts a few days instead of hours.

[–] yournamehere@lemm.ee 3 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

just not true.innofact can f off. if you keep asking the old people, you will get old people answers.

when confronting the asked ppl with the numbers it costs to build a new one they all dont want a new one. not to mention the insurance for a plant. and from ukraine war we all learned nuclear ia stupid.

or go ask any of those fuckwits if we can store the waste where they live. numbers prove that around the plants the number of kids with cancer did indeed exceed all expections.

NOBODY wants a plant or the waste anywhere close to where they live.

"would you like cheap clean nucular(!) energy"

or

"would you like a powerplant and final storage near you"?

fuck innofacts hate campaign.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

numbers prove that around the plants the number of kids with cancer did indeed exceed all expections.

Do you have a source on this? Not to be contrarian, I've just never heard this to be the case.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 hours ago

from ukraine war we all learned nuclear ia stupid.

Isn't that what prompted this - Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons, and then everyone needing an energy source that isn't Putin?

"would you like a powerplant and final storage near you"?

Why would they put final storage near humans and not inside a mountain or something?

[–] Alaknar@lemm.ee 9 points 22 hours ago

Killing nuclear energy in Germany was the greatest success of FSB up to the point of planting an asset right in the middle of the Oval Office.

[–] friendlymessage@feddit.org 59 points 1 day ago (16 children)

FFS, people are stupid.

There was a huge hysteria about nuclear when Fukushima happened. A clear majority was for immediate action. Merkel's coalition government would have ended if she hadn't done a 180 on nuclear and decided to shut down nuclear as soon as possible, which was 2023. I was against shutting it down back then but I thought you can't go against the whole population, so I get why they did it. People didn't change their mind until 2022. Nobody talked about reversing that decision in all these years when there was actually time to reverse the decision.

Now, that the last reactor is shut down, the same people that were up in arms in 2011 are now up in arms that we don't have nuclear. Building new plants will cost billions and take decades and nuclear doesn't work well with renewables because of its inflexibility. It makes no sense at all. It was a long-term decision we can't just back away from. What's done is done.

[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 4 points 10 hours ago

You don't miss the water until the well runs dry.

[–] Floopquist@lemmy.org 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I like that you mention the point, Merkel's coalition made a full 180 turnaround. Which was an error. They could have just made a plan for phasing out the reactors until maybe 2040 or 2050. No, they had to stop them right away and now the existing plants are so gutted that they are not feasible to be rebuilt again.

Anyway, building new power plants takes centuries in Germany. So we should just focus on renewables *and storage solutions now.

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[–] Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

nuclear doesn’t work well with renewables because of its inflexibility

Uuuuh, why wouldn't it? Nuclear can provide a steady base load for the grid while the renewables are providing the rest, filling up storages for spike times if there is an excess. Don't really see how this is a big issue.

[–] FlareShard@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The issue is nuclear reactors become more expensive the less load they have.

As we build more renewables, nuclear energy will decrease in cost efficiency as renewables and storages start handling base loads.

The problem isn't so much that it can't work, it's that it will not be cost efficient long term.

[–] aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee 0 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

How can they start handling base loads if there is literally no sun or wind (as happens reasonably frequently). You either need a ton of storage which is its own environmental can of worms or nuclear

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Cost. You do not need much storage for a 95% renewable grid. For the last 5% nuclear baseload is still way too expensive.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I suspect that we will utilize a gas peaker plants for the last 5% for a long time; i couldn't think of a much better option.

[–] 0tan0d@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Irs batteries. Today's car batteries become tomorrow's grid storage feed stock. Also battery tech is getting a cost decline through scaling so every year a nuclear plant isn't built the math gets better for grid storage. Also adding more batteries to existing sites is way easier.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Nuclear works well with renewables. It provides reliable base load while the renewables and batteries can be used on top of that. Plus the fuel can be sourced from friendly nations like Canada.

Also worth noting that 15 years is a long time. SMRs are starting to be built and France is planning to build a bunch of nuclear capacity in the near future which might mean the possiblity to import cheap energy or leverage the human resources from those builds.

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[–] fx242@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

Southern countries (Spain and Portugal) have a lot of wind and hydro (and soon solar) power to spare. But somehow some "actors" are cutting them off from the rest of the European power grid. Looking at you France, your greedy bastards!

[–] intheformbelow@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Germany shot itself in the foot when it turned away from nuclear...

[–] uniquethrowagay@feddit.org 8 points 1 day ago (7 children)

No. Take a good look at France and their nuclear strategy. Both maintaining old reactors and building new ones is extremely costly. Building times are to be measured in decades. Nuclear power is not economically viable nor is it a solution to the climate catastrophe.

Returning to nuclear power in Germany is nothing but a pointless waste of tax money.

What do you mean? The cost of an old nuclear reactors' MWh is 40-50€, that's really competitive.

And unlike solar and wind, it produces anytime. As a French person, not only do I think we were right to build them in the first place, I'm annoyed we stopped in the 2000s after the Chernobyl scare campaign, it's safer than Germany's coal, which also produces radioactive waste and isn't properly regulated, unlike nuclear.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 11 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Keep looking at things from a money perspective and the solution become obvious : kill everyone and be done with it.

Today, nuclear energy is a reasonably safe, efficient source of energy. Is it the energy of the future ? Probably not. But is it an efficient option for smoothing the grid while planting renewable all around it? It's definitely better than the other alternatives. Does it cost money to develop? Sure. Everything costs money. But there are benefits that won't show up in an accounting book that can't be brushed aside.

[–] uniquethrowagay@feddit.org 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Power to gas, water pumps, heat storage and battery storage are viable alternatives. There are many days already where we over produce green energy. Why sink hundreds of billions into nuclear plants when we could use the energy we already produce instead?

Nuclear power is all but efficient.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 1 points 13 minutes ago

You keep seeing these as "alternatives", despite the shortcomings.

I say they are complimentary, and as far as providing power to address these shortcomings, nuclear power is a good solution. How can you look at something that can single-handedly address all power requirements in some area, while providing supports to other, and say "nah", seriously.

[–] CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works 9 points 21 hours ago

One way or another you need grid-scale turbines to maintain grid frequency. Solar power can't set frequency and wind power is too variable, so power grids use some sort of turbine to do it.

Nuclear reactors are also necessary to generate things like medical isotopes and tritium for industrial processes, and fusion research. Someone, somewhere on Earth needs to keep their fission reactors going.

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[–] Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de 38 points 1 day ago (3 children)

There's nothing more to come. Nuclear power is slow and uneconomical.

Joe Kaeser, Chairman of the Supervisory Board of Siemens Energy: "There isn't a single nuclear power plant in the world that makes economic sense," he said on the ARD program Maischberger on November 27, 2024.

https://www.tagesschau.de/faktenfinder/farbebekennen-weidel-faktencheck-100.html?at_medium=mastodon

A fact check by the Fraunhofer Institute on nuclear energy states: "For example, around €2.5 billion would have to be raised to cover the nuclear waste generated. Overall, considerable short-term investments would be required." (for the construction of a new power plant)

https://www.ikts.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ikts/abteilungen/umwelt_und_verfahrenstechnik/technologieoekonomik_nachhaltigkeitsanalyse/oekonomische_analyse_nachhaltigkeit/241030_Fraunhofer-Faktencheck_Kernenergie.pdf

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[–] Katzimir@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 day ago (8 children)

I have been working in decomissioning npps in germany for over a decade now which is why I feel so strongly about the knee-jerk conservative BS. no, there are not -a million ways- to make waste from nuclear power plants safe. even material released from regulations (concrete from decomissioned buildings for example or soil from the ground) has some residual radioactive particles and just like alcohol in pregnancies: there is no safe amount of exposure to radiation, just a lower risk of provoking potentially fatal genetic mutation that european regulators deem acceptable. but that in and of itself is not really problematic. It is just that we cannot assume ideal conditions for running these plants. while relatively safe during a well monitored and maintained period in the power producing state of a npp that changes radically if things go south. Just look at what happened to the zhaporizhia powerplant in ukraine they actively attacked a nuclear site! And all the meticulous precautions go out the window if a bunch of rogues decide to be stupid - just because. and tbf whatever mess the release of large amounts of radioactive particles does to our environment, economy and society i would rather not find out. as others have laid out here, there are safer and better suiting alternatives that are not coal.

[–] relic_@lemm.ee 17 points 1 day ago (6 children)

This is just straight up fear mongering. Say what you will about the economics, but the idea that there's no safe amount of radiation is ridiculous (we don't know, but presumably it's okay in some amounts since you're getting radiation doses every day even not living near anything nuclear).

The idea that NPPs are some unsafe technology just waiting to explode is dramatic and untrue.

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