this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2025
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politics

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[–] Dimmer@leminal.space 73 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The post rightly points out that Citizen United is one of the cornerstones of contemporary American politics and the continued success of Trumpism.

Regrettably, when a law is enacted to make existing laws meaningless, there appears to be no legal path to undo it.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

There is no "law" that was passed to enable Citizens United, it was a court case that was interpreted in a stupid way that enabled all of the current political happenings to be possible by allowing "corporations" the ability to flood the zone with cash.

Just need to pass laws that ban that.

[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 4 points 16 hours ago

Yes and there’s no realistic way to pass a law to ban it. Republicans will not give up their power and any attempt will flood billions into electoral opponents to stop it.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You pass more laws to undo the undoing of prior laws.

Unfortunately it takes way more time to do things right than to undo or undermine things.

[–] Dimmer@leminal.space 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The genius of CUvsFEC is they basically made it sure there’s no way back. If a legislator dare to revert this, they will be out-raised and voted out.

I disagree. There was a path to getting it unfucked for a period of time through states and potential constitutional amendment, but the Republicans (naturally) tanked it.

If all of this happening right now does anything, it should definitely be illustrated based on current events this can't happen again. We'll need to put the sitting Republicans quick to stop it though.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Regrettably, when a law is enacted to make existing laws meaningless, there appears to be no legal path to undo it.

I've seen this before. Who is out there claiming Citizens United is a law?? And there is always a legal path. If space aliens show up and eat Musk there's a legal path to convict them. Not that we should.

[–] Atelopus-zeteki@fedia.io 41 points 1 day ago

"The problem with CU’s rationale is that, when applied in today’s media setting, it discriminates against the viewpoints of everyone else. When the world’s richest man spent $44 billion to purchase a social media platform to amplify his own political views, he chilled the free political speech of everyone else. Ditto when he spent an additional $288 million to get Trump elected, largely through disinformation. When Trump promised fossil fuel giants who donated $1 billion to his campaign that he would gut environmental laws as their payback, he chilled the free speech of everyone who depends on clean air and water but can’t pony up a cool billion."

[–] BugKilla@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I am sorry my American friends but it is going to get a lot worse before it returns to the status quo and I doubt that it will even remotely get better ever again. As a nation you have lived off the spoils of victory and sided with despots because you have been happy with the crumbs that rich capitalists throw at you. Only when your conscience got the better of you, have you engaged in altruism and even then it was for the furthering of corporate interests.

You will no longer command the respect of your allies and trust of those that you once claimed to protect. Your friends will now treat you with suspicion and maybe contempt. The oligarchs and religious zealots will eat your organs while you're distracted by culture wars, racism, fear and entertainment.

Many of you will say "Well, America first!", without realising that it has been that way for almost a century except it has really been "America's wealthiest first". I really feel a great sadness, like losing a parent to dementia in that there are two deaths: one when they are no longer themselves anymore and the other when the vessel fails.

Vale.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I like how you seemingly blame the American leople for the failings of the government. I don't blame Russians for the failings of the Russian government anymore than I blame my fellow citizens in America.

Are there leople that support this, sure. But it's a minority of people, 30% is not the majority. And you should always be able to separate a shitty governments actions from the people living there. They are not one and the same.

[–] gimmelemmy@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

If the United States is the shining example of democracy, then your argument loses some of its steam. Government of the people, and all ...

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

America hasn't been the shining example in democracy for a long time and that's a well known fact. I'd say that means the argument hasn't lost any steam. It never can be a good democracy with a FPtP system. Guess who can change that. The government.

[–] earphone843@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

The US has never been a true democracy

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Are there leople that support this, sure. But it's a minority of people, 30% is not the majority.

This percent is meaningless. People who could have voted but didn't literally do not matter. Most American voters wanted this .

[–] OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Many of those people who could've voted but didn't believed the lie that their vote doesn't matter. Does that make them stupid? Gullible? Irresponsible? Perhaps. Does it mean they understand and support what's happening? No it doesn't.

Our education system has been decaying for decades. We are fucking FLOODED with propaganda. Our very voting system is heavily rigged against us. Sure, we could've done better, and should've done better. But I think it's monstrous to imply that an entire population deserves the horrors of fascism.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Many of those people who could've voted but didn't believed the lie that their vote doesn't matter. Does that make them stupid? Gullible? Irresponsible? Perhaps. Does it mean they understand and support what's happening? No it doesn't.

Does any of that make those people matter? No it doesnt. They chose to not matter by not voting. I'm respecting their choice. Not sure why you won't.

Our education system has been decaying for decades. We are fucking FLOODED with propaganda. Our very voting system is heavily rigged against us. Sure, we could've done better, and should've done better. But I think it's monstrous to imply that an entire population deserves the horrors of fascism.

Yeah that's cool but asking me, a Canadian, to give a shit about this when your mess is about spill over the border is asinine.

Do you know what you guys have done? People like me used to wish the best for Americans. I wished that Americans would finally figure out universal health care and education funding so that the immense wealth of America could benefit more of its people. Now I wish that Trump moves to quickly gut social security and tank the US economy, because I know that rich people losing money in the presence of a lot of angry poor people is the only way Americans will fix this for themselves.

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world -1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

What a horrifying thing to say. To me this reads as if the cost of the lives of the elderly and disabled folks (not your own country's disabled or elderly folks, of course) who rely on social security and other federal and federally funded programs is well worth what you consider to be a desirable outcome. Its not realistic and it feels bloodthirsty. Please tell me if I'm misunderstanding.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Bloodthirsty? Lol. You guys are hilarious. Those old people are getting exactly what they voted for. Asking for pity from abroad is futile and utterly pathetic. What I outlined is literally the shortest through this madness, probably with the least total damage. That you find that reality distasteful is irrelevant.

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 0 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

You don't seem to care much about the incalculable damage done to (and over time the rapid expansion of) the disabled population caused by the cult of capitalism and any and all consequences of the perpetuation of said cult. I find that to be pretty horrific honestly, it affects me personally and many people I know and care about, so I take a lot of care not to perpetuate harm by taking steps to understand the ways that harm comes to people and the part I play in that. "Distasteful" is an understatement.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago

That damage is incoming and clutching your pearls over my comment isn't going to change that.

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 0 points 17 hours ago

Thank you. That person is either extremely misguided or arguing in bad faith.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 0 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Undo the last decade of gerrymandering and the math of the last election is subtly different.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Gerrymandering didn't win Trump the White House. American voters did. At least learn to be mad at the right thing FFS. Gerrymandering at the federal level in the US affects the House of Representatives. The electoral college is what put Trump in the white House. But he won the popular vote too.

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

people ... literally do not matter

Um, what? Even with the rest of the sentence, these people have been manipulated so thoroughly that they hold, in my opinion, very little of the blame, to the point where it's not at all worth assigning it to the group as a whole. It's not productive and it doesn't help anything. Convince individuals to make changes and take action.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 3 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Then fucking do it. 1/3rd if eligible voters made an active choice to not vote despite the choices never being more obvious. They chose not to matter. I'm just respecting their choice. Why can't you?

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world -1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

Then fucking do it.

I am.

I'm just respecting their choice. Why can't you?

Because many of them made the choice under extreme duress; because they are people who deserve at least the chance to learn and become engaged in helping others; because, as I have stated, I believe the manipulation is pervasive and powerful and generations old and I don't fault people for falling victim to it. I understand you are frustrated. I understand it's hard to put yourself in others' shoes. The solution is not to exclude, but to understand what got us here and start doing the work, internally and externally, to create a better system from the ground up that will ultimately give individuals the tools to make better choices that are consistent with what they really believe, when not under threat of starvation/being cut off from or bankrupted by health care/homelessness/imprisonment/violence/etc.

Edited to add: I missed a couple things at the end of my first comment. I said "Convince individuals make better choices and take action." I meant to convey that what I'm saying is what I recommend one does to make change, by giving others the tools, support, opportunities, and motivation to make better choices and take action, and set the example that such things are possible, quite literally being the change you want to see in the world.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

The solution is not to exclude, but to understand what got us here and start doing the work,

The solution is entirely beyond you. There is no combination of words or actions you can take that will make commited non-voters give a shit. The only way past this now goes through an era of suffering.

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 0 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

It sounds to me like you haven't actually talked to many of these people, or at least actively listened to them and tried to understand their concerns. Think this through. At what point do things get better if we don't start changing how we do things now? What do you prefer to do, and/or suggest as a solution, if those two things are not one and the same?

Edit: also idk about you but I've already been in an era of suffering, I've been disabled and marginalized and mistreated, and so have many others. To me, treating people as complex beings with layers upon layers of motivations and ideas and beliefs and sensitivities and so on is an important part of respect and I see it as necessary if we are ever going to be able to change how things work and end the global perpetuation of harm.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Think this through. At what point do things get better if we don't start changing how we do things now? What do you prefer to do, and/or suggest as a solution, if those two things are not one and the same?

I did think it through. What have you thought throu that convinced you that appealing to the better angels of their nature in just the right way is somehow the solution. There are 2 broad outcomes here. 1. The fascists just outright win. None of Trump's incompetence matters, he just keeps plowing forward, and wins. After he does someone else takes over. 2. Things get bad enough fast enough for enough people that change is forced. In America , poor people caring about things isn't enough. Rich people have to lose money for anything to happen AND things have to get back enough for everyone else that Americans stop sleepwalking and start paying attention in a way that Congress can't ignore.

Among these outcomes, 2 is the hopeful one. The best case scenario. Good luck.

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 0 points 10 hours ago

Okay sounds like you prefer to do nothing productive while others work on solutions. If you are correct in your assumptions, I hope you're preparing for what you believe is coming.

[–] aaron@infosec.pub 13 points 1 day ago

Pay and privacy wall

[–] boydster@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

A painful read, but a good article.