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Not how it works. The first amendment explicitly allows you to disagree with the founding philosophy of the country. In fact it's sort of the whole point.
My opinion? It's better to have these guys out in the open where you can see them. If you try and suppress them by shutting down their protests or arresting them you have
A) opened the door for the government to do that with any radically perceived movement in the future. Any leftist protest movement could easily be shut down under similar pretense
B) you turn the guys into martyrs for the cause. Just like Trump's indictments improved his polling numbers, these Nazis would likewise see a surge in popularity.
C) suppressing ideas doesn't make them suddenly go away. You just push it underground where it becomes even more radical without the moderating influence from the mainstream.
Why are people becoming open Nazis? Consider the source of the problem. The worse the economic situation is historically, the more radical people become. Florida has the highest inflation in the country, relatively low wages and relatively high cost of living.
It's not a coincidence that the Nazis came to power right after the Great Depression. We need to fix the economic situation and fast.
You might not like him or disagree with him but if he was a nobody you wouldn't have an opinion on him.
The government should not be the arbiter of truth. Do you trust the FBI? Do you trust the CIA? You think they are the good guys? The dozens of coups all across the world? The endless spying and surveillance?
You're advocating that these people should have even more power over you.
To avoid cockroaches, you stop leaving food and water in the open. Turning the lights off and scurrying them away won't help the issue.
We need to solve the economic issues to get rid of Nazis. Anything else is just turning the lights off. As long as people are struggling to pay bills and have a sense of instability and fear for the future... we're going to have fascists. It doesn't matter if you make it so they can't speak in public. They will just speak in private and continue to grow.
We need broad ranging economic reforms.
Give me specific examples. I don't follow what you mean.
Nazis believe in the genocide of a racial group. Genocide is not normalized in the USA. It was not normalized by the Telecommunications Act.
Can we stop saying crazy things that didn't happen?
Christianity has nothing to do with fascism. It can be used by fascists, sure. But if you look at Nazi Germany for example Hitler hated the church and there's speculation he had plans to totally destroy it. Fascists don't like groups of power that aren't controlled by them. So for example the Catholic Church had to go. He tried to create a Protestant church called the "Reich Church" that was sort of a state religion but once that failed he gave up and suppressed the religious movements.
Have you ever actually dealt with cockroaches? They survive nuclear blasts. You need to remove the source of food and water otherwise all the traps in the world don't make a difference. You leave one or two alive and they will just repopulate.
Plus consider the implications of what you're saying. Let's say we arrest and imprison every single Nazi. What's going to happen? The ones that remain are going to stay real quiet, aren't they? What then? Is the government going to be actively spying on every single communications in the country to try and find them?
That's what it'll take. And maybe it'll even be possible. But consider what you have created. A massive surveillance state with broad ranging legal powers to detain and imprison "enemies of the state". What happens when a far-right party gets elected? Remember, we are a democracy. What happens when the next Trump gets elected and says BLM are fascists?
Actually, we don't need to imagine. If you look at his recent interview with Tucker Carlson that's exactly what he said. He said the fascists are out to get him.
You don't see any potential issues with this? None at all?
Honestly, we're screwed. Unfortunately I think your wish will ultimately become reality and we will live in a brutal authoritarian surveillance state. I'm just glad I got to grow up before it became that way.
Yes. That is exactly what I'm trying to say. Let's say a fascist comes to power. They call everyone else fascists.
Now they use the rules you just created to shut down speech that isn't fascist.
You keep ignoring this or failing to understand. Prompting me to believe you are likely a bot.
Ok, so you would put half of the GOP in prison? Good luck with that. I also want a million bucks and a harem of curly hair dark girls.
It's only a matter of time before the GOP wins another presidency. It's probably going to happen next year.
What then? Do you trust Trump with the ability to define what is and isn't valid speech?
^^ please answer this don't ignore it for the 4th time
Ok, so you admit you don't trust Trump with the ability to define what is and isn't valid speech. So now we have a contradiction here.
Either a) the government CAN define what is and isn't valid speech or b) the people deserve freedom of speech
You can only pick one. Can't just say "no freedom of speech but nobody bad will ever take power in a democracy"
Because you know what happens in democracies? Eventually bad people come to power. It's always happened. In Rome. In Athens. In Germany.
You don't understand what happens in these countries. It's fear and instability. Someone comes along and offers a problem to fix it. Don't worry, you lost all your jobs because of China and the immigrants. I will fix it. Build a wall. etc
It only works because people are scared and insecure. You fix that, you fix the fascists. Nothing else will fix the fascists. Literally, you can do everything in the world. Won't go away.
do i look like i have a don't tread on me tattooed on my forehead? I believe we need to have mass government actions in order to provide housing, healthcare, college, internet, power, water, etc. I think all of those things should be free. I'm not a free market capitalist
I just can see further than the front of my nose and realize that banning speech is asking for a one-way ticket to 1984
How do we fix the insecurities of alt right white supremacists who spend their free time getting off on antagonizing people for the sake of upsetting someone?
Some of them even want someone to try and fix them so they can use that for their own personal entertainment.
It's not those men you really need to fix. It's the people who initially voted for Trump. Rust belt, blue collar, white anerican, etc.
These people had essentially been abandoned and Trump took them up as their hero.
If the economy was booming in the Rust belt, they would have never gotten Trump elected in the first place.
Yeah.. Alt righters.
Nearly half of the country views Trump positively. If all of those fall into your definition of "alt-righters" then yes. But I see the alt-right as different than most moderate Republicans.
Ie business owners who are cool with gays, aren't overtly racist, support abortion, etc and supported Trump for tax reasons.
Yeah, you're talking about the gullible general public who was influenced by the alt right.
Doesn't do them any justice to call them gullible. Majority of people on both sides are gullible. The main thing I'm trying to say is these people historically were blue. They weren't red. But what happens when you see your town falling apart, drug epidemic, all the jobs leave, crime increases, all the young people start moving away, you have trouble paying bills, hard to get groceries, etc
In your perspective, you're witnessing the disintegration of America.
Then you have someone who addresses you directly and gives you a reason why (immigrants, "marxists", china, etc) and sells you on symbolic solutions (the "Wall" tm)
You can't just chalk this all up to gullibility.
If people were having happy stable lives where their needs were being met financially and emotionally, they wouldn't vote for these proto-fascists. This is the key issue we need to address. This hostile attitude towards half the country will only further serve the interests of the fascists - by helping them justify a lot of their talk about "witch hunts" and "hoaxes" etc
How do you know that? What are you basing that off of?
I mean, I have an example of what you're talking about but its the only thing I can think of where I'm like, yeah I know for sure that was the case. And only feel comfortable saying that because there is recorded evidence of someone stating that they use to be a democratic, and then switched to vote for Bush who ran as a republican.
And as for the alt right stuff - I only feel comfortable saying what I said about that because I spent several years of my early 20's being really misguided and I was knee deep in that shit.
Trump talked about running for president since like the 90's so that was already out there as information. The alt right groups were looking for a "new hitler" as they put it and eventually pushed for Trump. They did this through social engineering. Over the course of several years.
People laugh when I talk about this but it is a real thing that happened.
It's been disintegrating for awhile now.
I'm not. Both things are at play here.
Again. How do you meet the needs of people who are filled with hatred? I'm genuinely asking since you keep bringing this up.
It's a well known thing. Was a huge part of the discussion around the 2016 election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_(U.S._politics)
I'm not making anecdotal observations here, we're talking about how a historically blue region went red. And the reason why.
Of course I remember the "meme faith" thing that was happening in 2016 and it seemed like it really worked. All those alt right pepe memes infesting everything and they picked Trump as the focus
But that alone isn't enough to secure someone an electoral win. What Trump did was unprecedented. An outsider essentially took over the GOP - we witnessed a coup and the Republicans are still trying to fight him to this day. Look at how he refused to go to the RNC debate.
I live in a liberal and wealthy area of a red state. I make good money, live comfortably, and have a diverse community of people available to me. All sorts of recreation, social events, etc.
Majority of the population of the country lives in areas similar to mine - urbanized and by the coast. These areas also tend to be overwhelmingly blue.
The country is disintegrating, but we aren't feeling it like they are. It isn't comparable. When things fall apart, the outskirts and edges get left out to dry first. Sort of like when you are in a very cold area your body will stop pumping blood to your extremities to maintain more blood around your vital organs - prioritizing the most important parts of the body.
Economic reforms. Large investments in infrastructure. A real Green New Deal - trillions of dollars spent building all sorts of modern infrastructure would require lots of labor. Build high speed rail all over America. Start programs that give companies incentive to return manufacturing jobs to the US.
These people used to live good lives when GM and Ford produced cars in the US. Now they outsourced everything to Mexico. Bring them back and people will start working again.
Raise minimum wage, introduce universal healthcare - or at least control the ridiculous prices. Debt relief programs. Subsidize mortgages and rent.
We need broad economic reforms. The hatred is because of the insecurity. If we get rid of the insecurity, we get rid of the hatred. Seriously, it's not a coincidence fascism came about right after the Great Depression. During this time period, we had fascist marches in NYC with tens of thousands of attendees.
We need to fix the economic problems by providing for our citizens. If we do this, we will eliminate the fear they hold. Without fear the fascists have no power.
Oh I'm talking about waay waaaay before 2016. I'm talking 2008. They were looking for a new hitler.
I can't agree because there is evidence of Trump talking about running for office since the 90's. We should have seen this coming but any time it was talked about, it was laughed off and ignored.
I live in a liberal area of a blue state. I make okay money and live kind of comfortable but not really and I miss out on a lot of things due to racism and having to combat culture wars because of who I am as a person.
So I'm feeling the disintegration. I get the brunt of it dealt to me first hand. People fucking hate me because I am who I am.
That being said -
I agree with this. I agree with raising minimum wage and universal healthcare - I'm even for universal basic income. I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I think it would help a lot of people.
I get that too. It's history and you can't argue against it.
But I'm telling you about a current enemy and its one I know very well - in my early 20s you could easily have lumped me in with that same group of people. I'm not anymore but I definitely was.
And even when I was growing as a person and slowly removing those ideologies on my own from myself.. I still interacted with people who are never going to stop being that way.
I don't think its all insecurity. I think some of it is just as simple as pure hatred. I'm telling you. They get off it. I don't know how anyone would change their mind when they totally want someone to go out of their way to try and change their mind. They want someone like you to try and get rid of their insecurity so they can laugh at the fact that you tried.
How do you change someone like that? How do you help someone like that?
The only reason I changed is cause I chose to do that on my own.
I don't think you really know anything about Chomsky's corpus of work. I believe this because you didn't mention any of his critiques of US imperialism or the propaganda model he outlined in his most famous book - Manufacturing Consent.
You speak confidently about things you don't really understand. I'm going to stop engaging unless you start addressing the things I'm saying. I'm starting to think you might be a ChatGPT bot. Or maybe just a teenager, I don't know.
This isn't a debate. I guess you aren't a bot and are just a teenager after all.
That would be more concerning, to be honest. It's understandable why a teenager hasn't developed an adult's perspective or a competent reading comprehension.
Something I learned about the Rwandan genocides in 1994 is that comparing humans to insects is one of the first steps of genocidal ideology.
Why do you think I'm arguing with you?
Yeah, I wasn't taking issue. I was providing information.