this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2025
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chapotraphouse

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I have a friend who's a actually becoming more and more leftist and lately even communist but not yet fully Marxist. I'm trying to help him shed lib ideas. He specifically asked me if we could have a talk at some point on war. He's confused about the war propaganda. Like just a vague "Haven't things changed maybe because of Russia? Maybe we in Europe need to boost defense now etc."

I want to introduce him to Lenins Idea of revolutionary defeatism, because I think it applies to our historical moment. A revolutionary can not but desire the defeat of his imperialist government. Also Liebknechts line:"the main enemy is at home". The main task for leftists in imperial core countries is to fight the imperialists we can actually effect: the ones right here. You can be happy about any success of comrades in Russia fighting their oligarchy, but don't get roped into supporting western oligarchs' NATO wars.

We both care about trans and queer issues a lot, so he will bring up fears of evil Russia conquering part of Europe and rolling back queer rights. I can contextualize by bringing up the moral track record of western countries (like the ongoing genocide). But is there a more direct answer? Also just in general, I'm not sure if I'm missing an obvious angle or argument. Anything you would definitely mention on war? Suggested reading?

I might have to get into the specifics, of how the war developed historically, but there will be a lot of propaganda to unravel, so ideally, I'm looking for a concise argument, that can pierce the propaganda and illuminate the truth. Hope that's not too much to ask ;)

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[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There was a good metaphor someone on Xiaohongshu had regarding military invasions for “liberation”: “an egg cracked from outside will just be a runny mess, but an egg cracked from the inside will be a new chick.” The track record for military engagements as the aggressor producing better outcomes for the target country are extremely poor: Iraq (both times), Afghanistan (both times), Libya, Korea, Vietnam.

The current Ukrainian-Russian conflict looks different on the surface level as Russia invaded Ukraine and so it looks like supporting Ukraine isn’t an aggressor move but just supporting a country against an aggressor. This is why it’s important to look at vital historical contexts, that Russia’s attack is a response to western talk/threats of Ukraine joining NATO and western “joint military exercises” in Ukraine. Not to mention the repression of ethnic Russians in the separatist regions. One of the things that’s satisfying to do morally but just leads to bad analysis is treating foreign leadership that’s seen as antagonistic like they’re cartoon villains that do evil for evil’s sake. Like Putin is going to throw god knows how many Russian lives and resource down the drain to try and conquer Europe because he just loves evil and power so much. So western involvement is only going to amplify that Russian sense of threat from the West. And that’s the biggest brainworms that Western baby leftists often have to overcome is understanding that western, imperialist armies don’t just make mistakes, they’re mostly in the wrong.

[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

Great metaphor and in a way, it was the West that "cracked" this egg with the maidan coup.