this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2025
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chapotraphouse

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I have a friend who's a actually becoming more and more leftist and lately even communist but not yet fully Marxist. I'm trying to help him shed lib ideas. He specifically asked me if we could have a talk at some point on war. He's confused about the war propaganda. Like just a vague "Haven't things changed maybe because of Russia? Maybe we in Europe need to boost defense now etc."

I want to introduce him to Lenins Idea of revolutionary defeatism, because I think it applies to our historical moment. A revolutionary can not but desire the defeat of his imperialist government. Also Liebknechts line:"the main enemy is at home". The main task for leftists in imperial core countries is to fight the imperialists we can actually effect: the ones right here. You can be happy about any success of comrades in Russia fighting their oligarchy, but don't get roped into supporting western oligarchs' NATO wars.

We both care about trans and queer issues a lot, so he will bring up fears of evil Russia conquering part of Europe and rolling back queer rights. I can contextualize by bringing up the moral track record of western countries (like the ongoing genocide). But is there a more direct answer? Also just in general, I'm not sure if I'm missing an obvious angle or argument. Anything you would definitely mention on war? Suggested reading?

I might have to get into the specifics, of how the war developed historically, but there will be a lot of propaganda to unravel, so ideally, I'm looking for a concise argument, that can pierce the propaganda and illuminate the truth. Hope that's not too much to ask ;)

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[โ€“] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I'm probably not the best person to answer. But the simple answer is that war always hurts the poor and working class, and always enriches the already rich. The people getting conscripted, evacuated from their homes and living in refugee camps, trying to survive near a warzone, etc, they're all proles. Middle class and above have gotten the fuck aware from the war zone, they're probably sipping cocktails on some beach resort overseas. I think everyone from communists to chuds understand that war profiteering is a big cause of war; rich people are going to make it big selling some weapon or service to the military at far inflated prices.

Also the stated reasons for the war don't affect us poor people in any way. My country gaining or losing a bit of territory has zero effect upon my quality of life. But me and my love ones dying as soldiers or civilian casualties definitely will.

This takes a bit more left understanding to grasp: but the ones advocating for war, the media and politicians, are just tools for the bourgeoisie. The focused group tested, well rehearsed reasons are their reasons, not our reasons.

evil Russia conquering part of Europe

Lots of people believe this, but it's silly. If Russia is requiring years and tons of treasure just to retake Donbas, there's no fathomable way that Russia could conquer and occupy say Eastern Europe. And what does Russia have to gain from turning Europe into a graveyard of Russians and non-Russians just so they retake Finland or something, with a 100% hostile population.

[โ€“] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 19 points 1 week ago

May I add that, since the war with Russia started, all of the "social democracy" countries have shifted far to the right. All the war rhetoric has upped nationalism, which has brought an increase in racism and attacks against immigrants.

I'm painting with a broad brush, but there's been a slow shift towards a US style economy in Europe, with more military spending, less social services, and more austerity. I hope that someone can tell me a counter example in Europe, but it seems like it's across the continent.