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The Israeli public, at least 60-68% of it consistently supports genocide, even as they are direct witnesses and for the most part due to mandatory IDF enlistment, participate in it.
Most people in Russia hate their government and military, beyond some basic notion that they should be the toughest because they're Russian. Most people in China, especially the military, have nothing to do with any alleged genocide.
But the Israeli public is different. That is why they get less respect.
The Nazis were popular in Germany for a time, the Israeli government is no different at the moment. Both populations should not be respected even a little, given they have largely chosen and supported attrocities.
Is this stat literally "do you support genocide: Yes, No" or are we talking, it's not listed as genocide, but we're calling it genocide because that's the term we've decided to use? There's a large semantic difference here, and you're making it sound like they literally support genocide.
and yet, those governments persist, even though the war in Ukraine bolsters the support of Putin in an election, where 80% of the population votes for him semi regularly, surely that population doesn't support the genocide of the Ukrainian people? Or maybe it does, and we're just ignoring it because it's politically convenient. I could say the same about the Chinese government, but Chinese society is a little bit more complicated, and it's not quite as directly influenced since most of the human rights abuses are, well, not war.
are they though? I would like to compare this specifically to the war against Ukraine, because it's a particularly apt example.
Last i heard, the current Israeli government ISN'T popular, that's why the far right is pushing the government further against Palestine, pushing BB into a bit of a rock and a hard place situation, because if he doesn't he's not likely to stay in the government for very long, and either get replaced by someone further on the right, or more popular among the public (due to an election)
In fact, if we're judging the level of atrocity by human casualties alone, the Ukraine war is FAR worse. We're talking in the range of 200k Russian citizens killed, some incarcerated, some enlisted, some contract. Plus the numerous Ukrainian civilians murdered for no reason. And the relatively comparable Ukrainian military numbers as well. In total we're talking about like 300-500k people in some capacity being severely affected for the rest of their life. Most of them Russian conscripts, most of whom are ethnic minorities (because that's why the war is popular in Russia)
"surely, it couldn't be me who is wrong, because i'm correct, and i've never been wrong, surely it must be EVERYONE living in israel currently AND everyone who supports them, as defined by my schizo statistics that im pulling out of my ass and misconstruing heavily to make a point. How could i possibly be wrong?" - not a single person on lemmy, because nobody has self awareness for some reason.
The UN says its genocide. The icc says it's close enough to genocide for the Israeli government to be arrested, every non Israeli historian with a specialty in genocide says its genocide.
And yes, the questions have been "do you support the governments actions against Gaza and the Palestinian people", and yes those actions are known to be genocide by the people that carried them out, i.e. the general public in Israel thanks to mandatory IDF service.
There used to be 2 million people in Gaza. There's now at most 1.2 million by most outside estimates. Deaths stopped being counted when all the hospitals, and that's not an exaggeration, were bombed in Gaza. So no one has been counting the dead.
You don't get to say Ukraine has it worse, because they don't. Objectively. No part of their experience is pleasant, but it's simply incomparably better.
IDK about the UN personally, because people have only ever sent me articles about the UN discussion how it "could be genocide" rather than how it is, or they simply point to UN law and go "look it meets the broad definition they supplied, that hasn't been legally scrutinized yet" If they do have an official statement on it, then i guess i just haven't seen it until now, because I'm not aware of one. The ICC specifically, I'm aware has arrest warrants for various war crimes, genocide is not listed among any of them, and AFAIK has not been attached since then, could be wrong on that one though, IK a lot of people point to the ICJ, but the ICJ literally refutes that claim themselves, they have stated that it could be "subject to conditions that would create a genocide" which is a rough paraphrasing, but as far as i know that's the most official statement they've made.
Sort of irrelevant, but another question I've been curious about is how many countries actually care enough to call it genocide, and i think that's up to two now? South Africa, obviously, and i think turkey? I'd have to check, both consider it a genocide. I don't know about any other countries, it's kind of an arcane thing to search for anyway. I know a lot of members of parliament have stated their concern, but those are representatives, and they can say basically anything.
ah interesting, so the question wasn't literally "is this genocide" and to be fair, i was being a little harsh on that one, but i think it's fair given the extent of the accusation being levied. Realistically, this is because both countries seem to hate each other, and haven't stopped hating each other for about 70 years now. Last i checked the middle east generally isn't very kind about these sorts of spats, they usually tend to do what they're doing right now. At least, in recent history, among recent conflicts.
this is definitely a huge problem, frankly not sure why this is even a thing that's happening (people not being allowed to leave, that's a pretty substantial problem) it's extremely difficult to justify that kind of action, and i don't want to say it's expected, but given the length of the conflict, and the history behind it, I'm hesitant to say it's also unexpected. Palestine hasn't exactly been the most cordial negotiator throughout this, and neither has Israel. It's sort of like the two worst people in the world, having a stand off. It's just not going to end well.
a lot of it is definitely better, but a lot of it is also very similar. It's just interesting to me that so many people seem to care so deeply about the Palestine issue, but barely anybody seems to even think about Ukraine at all these days. There are or were, maybe all of them were bots lmao, that seemed to be so heavily indebted into the side of Palestine that I'm not sure how they managed to be a functional person outside of that belief. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that a one state solution is simply, not going to work. Two state isn't perfect, but it's certainly better. Arguably the best possible result.