this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2025
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ich_iel
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No, that's AfD. Linke are leftists, totally opposite of Putin
Yes, but they kind of support giving Putin everything he wants and are willing to push Ukraine under the bus to aphese Putin. Sounds like they are pretty close to Putin.
That's the BSW, which thankfully split from the left.
BSW is so laughable, the most obvious right wing false flag party
Die Linke wants to stop giving Ukraine the means to defend itself as well. not much better than the BSW
Bullshit. They want Putin to piss off out of Ukraine. According to Die Linke, peace can only be reached when every last russian soldier retreats and the occupied territories are returned to Ukraine. Also, they want further and stricter sanctions against Putin, his puppets and the russian military industrial complex.
Doesn't sounds like they are close to Putin or want to give him anything.
this only means they're delusional.
"when we stop to support the Ukraine with weapons, we're sure nothing bad will happen and Putin will leave voluntarily if we just nicely ask him to"
seriously, how disconnected from reality can one be?
That is an argument to be made. But it's far away fromnthe party being friendly towards Putin's Russia.
Also, it's not voluntarily. The Party wants to further the sanctions against Putin, his puppets and the russian military industrial complex and also want to put more international pressure on Russia.
Again, we can debate how effective those measures would be, and given the recent news about how the sanctions against russia are circumvented I'd be unsure and personally I am supportive of arms deliveries for Ukraine, but accusations of being Putin's friends are just false. If you want to see Putin's puppets in the german parliament, look at AfD and BSW. You will see the differences, I think.
that might be, but it doesn't matter for me. AfD and BSW want to stop weapon deliveries just like Die Linke.
AfD and BSW are Putins friends and what they demand leads to Putin getting (parts of) Ukraine. Die Linke isn't Putins friend and what they demand leads to Putin getting (parts of) Ukraine. in the end it's the same
No, that's wrong. Die Linked demands the full retreat of Russia, international security guarantees and full ukrainian sovereignty.
Die Linke can demand from Putin whatever the hell they want. without weapons Ukraine is doomed and there's no reason for Putin to listen to their demands and to think he'll listen is, like I said, delusional (that's my whole point).
also, Putins promises and guarantees (which he won't make) mean nothing. what's stopping him from attacking again after rebuilding his army?
But Die Linke doesn't (only) demands from Putin but wants to bring international pressure and international security guarantees.
Again, I agree that Ukraine also needs weapons, but that's not the point I'm arguing. I argue that saying "Die Linke is friendly towards Russia" is a false statement and that their points are not misrepresented.
okay yeah, I agree with you on that. my point is that Die Linke is delusional in thinking Putin won't win if Ukraine can't defend itself
That we do agree on.
I think what Putin wants more than anything is for countries to stop arms deliveries to Ukraine. And what I see is that the Linke want that too.
So, they are aligned at this.
You just can keep construction your BS, that doesn't change that Die Linked opposes Putin and other autocrats. I see no point in furthering this discussion since I don't like running headfirst into brick walls. Bye.
The real reason is you can't argue what im saying.
Look, I don't think the Linke is actually on Putins side. I'm saying they are stupid and doing Putin a favour even if they don't want to. It's the same with the Left in my country.
Also: tankies exist. And often they will exist in the most left party. So it's not completely out there to expect there might be some genuine affection for Putin there. There is in my country.
But the tankies just left and created their own party, the BSW.
Also I find it stupid to compare two parries from different countries to say they're the same because they lean in the same general direction.
I'm not saying they are the same, but they are both strongly on the left, I checked and they have the same policies, very sensible policies in my opinion. And they both oppose weapon support for Ukraine.
I did a google search and without any problem found groups associating with Die Linke that are tankies. Marx21, Kommunistische platform.
So yeah pretty similar. Both very problematic in the sense of their connection to Russia and Putin.
Dude, let's just end it here. I have no idea where you're from and what party from.your country you're talking about. Neither of us has enough knowledge about each other's party to really talk this out, especially not about the actual processes inside the parties. A quick google search will not give sufficient insights and you refuse to acknowledge viewpoints and insists that do not conform to your superficial judgment, which is really pissing me off. Bye.
Well I'm sorry, but it's not like you tried to present something I was missing with my understanding. Bye.
They want to stop arms delivering in itself. But if that means Ukraine will fall they won't stop it now.
They won't stop it? What does that mean? Would they increase it if USA stops for instance?
Are you asking me what "not stopping" means?
I don't know about an increase.
I'm asking are they on board with supplying weapons. Do they understand that there is no other way. Or are they so reluctant that they will change their mind when an opportunity for that occurs?
Other than doing what Putin wants them to do.
[citation needed]
I think Putin wants all if these too
You want a citation for Putin not wanting weapons shipped to Ukraine?
For disarming Europe in general?
For them bringing in Russia into a European defense pact (fucking uberlol)
For cutting Turkey out of their defense alliances?
Okay bud, here you go:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War
🤡
Yeah their Außenpolitik sucks, but they aren't paid or controlled Putin freaks, that's the AfD and the BSW.
they might not be controlled by Putin, but they might as well be. this only means that they're having positions favorable to Putin voluntarily and out of conviction.
whatever their motive might be, in the end it amounts to the same thing that BSW and AfD want as well.
"They just do everything in terms of foreign policy that Putin wants them to do, but that doesn't mean they do what the foreign dictator Putin wants?"
Do you hear yourself?
No, that's not what I said. I don't agree with their foreign policy, that being not wanting to give weapons to Ukraine or other countries, but their social policy is very progressive. Labeling them the effectively the same as BSW and AfD is just wrong.
I didn't say they were Nazis, though I think you could certainly make some snide comments on their pacifist hand-wringing being functionally indistinguishable from isolationism or, dare I say, nationalism in the end.
I said they were Putin's barking, cowardly lapdogs who even if they won a majority and got what they wanted domestically would just get their shit kicked in as Putin finishes his repeatedly stated irredentist goal of reconquering the Soviet/Imperial territories.
Which includes parts of Germany.
Their foreign policy gives democratic socialism a bad name, period. Socialists that won't fight fascism tooth and claw wherever it tries to spread deserve to fail.
Their policy on arms exports reads like an ambiguously phrased expression of misguided pacifism. They argue for negotiation and diplomacy, which isn't itself a bad idea, but it requires forcing Putin to the negotiation table in the first place.
Given they also condemn Putin's aggression, I don't think they're his friends, just naive when it comes to the reality of dealing with an autocratic imperialist whose legitimacy as ruler is founded in his appearance of strength.
When an entire group of political creatures act like they don't understand basic human nature, it's because they're manipulating you.
They know. It's their job to know. They keep their jobs by knowing.
Especially when it's "socialists" acting like they don't understand the goals of fascists.
I don't think international relations is quite so basic as you make it out to be. I've read expert opinions months back already stating that the current rate of attrition would see Putin forced to negotiate sooner or later, but it's hard to call just when. Maybe his willingness to enter talks now indicates desperation while trying to bluff strength still.
In any case, they've made a case for blocking tankers and increasing economic pressure. They're not just looking to abandon Ukraine, simply advocating for ways that don't involve exporting more weapons, which is why I think it's not a matter of opposing goals, just disagreement on the means.
No. Leftists are the most consistent against Putin. All parties have their co-opting agents, but the ratio and overall long term goals is what matters
This shouldn't be needed to be repeated, we're in a leftist social platform after all