this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2023
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Linux Gaming

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[–] 30p87@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'd say:

  • Lightweight (no bloat)
  • No licenses
  • Easier package management (of preinstalled drivers etc.)
  • Easier driver development
  • Much more flexible (Bootloaders, Partitions, etc.)
[–] Holzkohlen@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Whatever. I don't need it to be better, I just need it to be decent.

Precisely.

I switched to Linux before Steam on Linux was a thing. When it came to Linux, I made a Steam account and bought games. When they made Proton, I bought more games.

I'm not moving away from Linux, so all I need is for games to work well and I'll buy them. That's true on my desktop, and it's true on Steam Deck (even more true since many games are preconfigured).

I don't think it's good because of Linux, I think it's good because Valve invested a lot into it.

[–] mr_MADAFAKA@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] Heratiki@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

XDA’s article is quite a bit of garbage too. Outside of game compatibility their other reasons are reaching.

Linux has a desktop and can be used as a desktop PC as well and works with a ton of peripherals driver free. That being said Linux has an issue with too many hands in the cookie jar for window managers so you get 2 really bulky fleshed out ones and a whole bunch of others that just don’t hold up without considerable customization by the user which tends to add more bulk and a steep learning curve.

Xbox Gamepass, as great as it is, has a ton of issues with installing/uninstalling software in Windows and the cloud gaming part of Gamepass Ultimate works quite well on the Steam Deck too. Technically you can also dual boot Windows but it’s no at all worth it and has much worse performance.

And then they just kind of silently say that many people don’t know Linux and are familiar with Windows. I feel like anyone coming to Windows 11 from 10 or even 7 might have some idea but they’re going to be just as confused considering the obfuscation Microsoft included in 11. And Steam OS has an easy to use and understand interface that just about anyone can figure out in a few minutes.

I’m just not seeing the huge benefit that XDA claims. Worse performance and battery life, generally a higher cost (Windows licensing), and support is going to be a grab bag for all these Windows based handhelds.

I don't even see the point in comparing OS, just compare product experience. For example:

  • inexpensive for the performance you get
  • easy to use to play games
  • can use desktop mode for additional value (e.g. install Heroic or other launchers)
  • decent battery life

The fact that it runs Linux is largely an implementation detail, until you get to desktop mode.

[–] Demondice@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Compatibility is always touted as the primary reason why Windows trumps Linux for PC handheld gaming, but I'd say that the Steam Deck is probably more compatible with the types of games that I play than handhelds like the ROG Ally. Sure, more games may run outright on the Ally, but how many of those are genuinely playable if they rely on a mouse for control? These are supposed to be handheld PCs but for most of them you'd need to plug an external mouse in and sit at a desk to get the most out of a large number of PC games. Touchscreen control is often awkward at best for management games and games with similar mouse-driven interfaces.

I think the Lenovo handheld has a touchpad from the looks of a few photos, so at least they've understood the problem. If you play the sort of games where you'd mostly use a controller anyway you've got a lot of good handhelds to choose from. If your game library looks a lot like mine though, your choice is limited.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't game, but if I did, yes, I'd use Linux as my gaming platform. Just way more cuztomizable.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Linux desktop? I feel like a Linux desktop requires too much tinkering. It's nice for the steam deck because of valve's direct support for the hardware and os both in hand. If you take a common gaming desktop you'll probably run into lots of issues like 75% of gaming desktops on steam use Nvidia. 60% of controllers on steam are Xbox which has a bit of setup requirements and sometimes even then the drivers don't work.

Overall I love Linux. I love it in an environment where it's directly supporting me and my hardware. I simply do not get that with my common gaming desktop.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like a Linux desktop requires too much tinkering

It depends which distro you're on and what their priority is. I'm told that Linux Mint is very friendly to users. Ubuntu is also financially invested in making their OS as streamlined as possible. PopOS too.

The more a distro is targeting a specific user experience, the less tinkering it has. You just generally only see those deliberate user experiences in the mobile space (android, steamdeck, etc.) where the user's expectations are well defined. A desktop could be used for anything, and most people don't even have a desktop these days, so there's not a lot of financial incentive to design a user experience there.

But at the end of the day, when someone says they "use Linux", they almost never mean that they interface directly with the Linux kernel, but that whoever maintains the distro they run happened to choose to Linux.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Mint is the distro I use. I started with it in 2008 after being on some free-only Ubuntu-derived distro for about a year. After that, I went to Fedora, Arch, Manjaro then Fedora, then finally back to Mint recently.

most people don’t even have a desktop these days, so there’s not a lot of financial incentive to design a user experience there.

I don't know if that's true unless you separate desktops from laptops. I think most Americans at least have at least one home PC. https://www.ibisworld.com/us/bed/percentage-of-households-with-at-least-one-computer/4068/ shows this to be true. As well as https://www.statista.com/statistics/756054/united-states-adults-desktop-laptop-ownership/ and I am sure more stats can be pulled up. I guess if you mean custom-built desktop computers that number is probably low but of things that need to run a 32-bit/64-bit desktop environment computer, there is probably one in every house.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, desktops and laptops are two different form factors that address completely different use cases. Laptops made up the "mobile" market before the smartphone era. The power/thermal requirements, as well as peripherals for a laptop all need a completely different solution to create a reasonable user experience. Desktop UX innovations haven't seen much recently beyond all-in-ones. Most people these days don't even have a desk they could put it at, let alone enough room at the desk. And the under 18 crowd does everything on their phone or on a tablet, often not even needing a laptop.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Rather than tinkering, I often just omit the games that don't work well and buy AMD rather than Nvidia. I've got a Windows partition, but the last times I've booted into it were to update firmware on a fighting game controller and to play Dragon Ball FighterZ, which is basically the only game I have left in my library that I'll play with friends and won't work on Proton (online, anyway). Tinkering isn't even a thing I'm thinking about one way or another, but the nagging and removal of control that Microsoft annoys me with is something I actively seek to avoid. Different stokes, I suppose.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are a few games where I still hold on to Windows for. I do wonder if I could just use Linux as the host OS and virtualize a windows environment that has pretty good VirGL support.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Prior to Proton, it was a popular recommendation to use GPU passthrough to a virtual machine running Windows, with Linux as the host OS, but I never did it myself. Which games are your holdouts? Live service stuff with anti-cheat?

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, it's pretty basic but older games like Castle Crashers, Never Alone, and A Hat In Time. They all get about half the FPS they should on proton but also sometimes they'll launch and get less than 5 FPS the entire time. I just relaunch and they'll get about half again. At all times there seems to be a latency between my XBox controller to those games specifically where I don't notice this lag in rocket league.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The controller lag might just be a symptom of the same problem, but it's strange regardless. Bummer. In my neck of the woods, Proton has been so good that I often find myself not even checking compatibility ratings before buying a game. I'm actually struggling to remember the last time that Proton failed me, since the things it struggles with these days, like certain kinds of anti-cheat or DRM, are the exact reasons I wouldn't buy a game even if I was on Windows. Kubuntu/AMD, if you were curious.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I feel like a Linux desktop requires too much tinkering.

That is true, but some people just like to tinker.

Overall I love Linux. I love it in an environment where it's directly supporting me and my hardware. I simply do not get that with my common gaming desktop.

That is somewhat the beauty of it. I don't game, I just go to work and go home, so I have some free time to tinker and share what I have done/found/made.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely and that's a great way to look at it. If you like to tinker as a hobby then Linux is amazing. I even have a Linux computer meant for tinkering and do enjoy it. That said I switch to my Windows computer when I want to focus on playing games purely because that Linux computer isn't up to the task even with proton.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 1 points 1 year ago

I use Windows basically for work only. It's just easier cuz everything is stacked against Microsoft products.

Or if I'm at home, I RDP to the PC at work and just use that.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Here's the five:

  1. Everything you need, nothing you don't
  2. Better performance, lighter overheads
  3. A hidden desktop experience
  4. Never worry about drivers
  5. Modify it to your heart's content

And my response to each:

  1. Seems kinda hand-wavy to me, so I'll boil this down to lower bloat (i.e. lower disk and mem usage by the OS)
  2. This is very much YMMV, and for Steam Deck specifically, it's comparing a tuned the system to an OOTB experience; surely other handhelds tune their systems too
  3. I'm pretty sure this is true for other handhelds, but I haven't used them personally so I don't know
  4. This seems very solvable, and not an inherent Windows issue; large enterprises manage drivers and whatnot centrally, surely a handheld can too
  5. Surely this is true for Windows devices, no? I'm guessing more people are comfortable customizing Windows handheld PCs vs the Steam Deck simply because more people are familiar with customizing Windows than Linux

I just want to say that I have been Linux only for well over 10 years (aside from macOS at work), and I absolutely prefer a Linux-based handheld to a Windows-based one. However, I think this article is vastly overselling what Valve has done on the Steam Deck, after all, this is a pretty serious thing to brush aside:

On top of that, some games will never run on Linux, no matter what. Games like Call of Duty with a custom anti-cheat won't run, and that's a symptom of how open Linux is.

The end user usually doesn't care about how open their gaming-specific device is, they care if it plays the games they want.

I love Linux and my Steam Deck, and I'll recommend it every chance I get, but overselling it just leads to frustration. If you temper expectations, people will be pleasantly surprised at how good it is.

[–] ShiningWing@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago
  1. Seems kinda hand-wavy to me, so I’ll boil this down to lower bloat (i.e. lower disk and mem usage by the OS)

They pretty clearly say what they mean by that though, unless you only read the headers and not the actual text

  1. This is very much YMMV, and for Steam Deck specifically, it’s comparing a tuned the system to an OOTB experience; surely other handhelds tune their systems too

They absolutely don't, is the thing, and the Windows ones largely can't in the same way that the Deck can, because they can't change how Windows works beyond the surface, meanwhile Valve is able to write software for Linux like Gamescope, an entire lightweight compositor that lets them have full control over how games are displayed and means they don't need to have a full desktop environment running, and they directly contribute to and fund development for open source system components (like the KDE Plasma desktop environment that's used in Desktop Mode) in a way that would be impossible for similar things on Windows

Valve even has their own custom patched version of the Linux kernel in SteamOS, you can't do anything remotely like that on Windows

  1. I’m pretty sure this is true for other handhelds, but I haven’t used them personally so I don’t know

You can't avoid having using the desktop eventually on Windows on a handheld, and it's always running the background, even if you boot into Big Picture

Even if you're always running games from Big Picture or whatever, you still need to use the desktop for updates, as well as any settings and functionality that can't be accessed from Big Picture on Windows (like dealing with Bluetooth devices), as opposed to SteamOS where all of it can be handled directly in gaming mode without a desktop even running

  1. This seems very solvable, and not an inherent Windows issue; large enterprises manage drivers and whatnot centrally, surely a handheld can too

ASUS already has a solution, like the article mentions, but it can't be nearly as seamless as SteamOS where they can just push a single system update image that includes everything, and it's applied all in one go directly from gaming mode

There's also additional benefits SteamOS can have with its update system that Windows can't have, like how it has an A/B partition system similar to Android so that a broken update only breaks one partition and it can switch to the other one when that happens, which especially helps if something like a power interruption happens during an update and it doesn't complete properly (meanwhile on Windows it can be pretty hard to recover from something like that)

  1. Surely this is true for Windows devices, no? I’m guessing more people are comfortable customizing Windows handheld PCs vs the Steam Deck simply because more people are familiar with customizing Windows than Linux

You absolutely cannot modify Windows nearly as deeply as you can with Linux, and attempting to make any serious changes requires hacky solutions that Microsoft can just break in the next update anyway

Like, you can change almost every single component of a Linux distro, you can rewrite components directly since they're open source, and there are usually multiple options to pick from for any given piece of system software, such as the entire desktop environment, or the audio system, or even the kernel itself

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What's going to be really neat is if we get Linux handhelds using these new Qualcomm chips that are similar to Apple M series chips in terms of performance and power consumption.

[–] potustheplant 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You do realize it's not that simple, right? That's arm, not x86 so it would be a different architecture from consoles and pcs. It necessitates using some sort of translation layer like rosetta for mac and that tanks performance. So no, in the short term that wouldn't be neat.

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