this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2025
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I said a little bit ago that i had a feeling a nuke would be used within the next few years... i really hope i wasnt right.

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[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Iran isn't even trying to build a nuclear weapon. This is madness, all these lies and now these morons can't even understand what is real and what is not.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If i were Iran id be seriously rethinking that right now tho. If the US is threatening nukes that would just make me want to make one now. I wouldn't be surprised if we see an Iranian nuclear test, and an announcement that they've got a couple ready to go within the next few weeks or months.

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

As an atheist I do see a few advantages of a theocracy. The Khomeini actually deeply believes that weapons of mass destruction is deeply wrong and a sin and against the will of god. They've experienced chemical warfare in the US backed Iraq-Iran war.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean i don't think you need religion to think that way lol. I think most people would agree. But if the evil empire has them and the only way to not have them be used on you is to have your own... you really don't get a choice in the matter.

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago

But what do people believe in if you don't believe in god? Money/ Wealth? Power? Nationalism? American exceptionalism? Consumerism? Those are the easy things to induce in a population if you don't push back against it.

There is a great documentary by Adam Curtis "Can't Get You Out of My Head" that looks at the rise of Russian nationalism because of the "economic shock" that was subscribed by the west when the USSR collapsed. Because there was obviously no prosperity to believe in there was nothing else to believe in than nationalism.

Obviously we do need a refined "humanist philosophy" to believe in that does not require religion but can somehow unite humanity and provides powerful antibody against both capitalist propaganda and militaristic thinking.

The problem is that in the west ideology is a lie, the real ideology is greed is good, win by any means necessary, and protestation to the contrary are just to win votes. This is not due to the quality of ideology but due to the power imbalance and over decades slowly growing and chipping away.

So even if there are many thigns wrong with Iran, the believe in something higher and the Khomeini and the guardian council are a powerful counterweight to these influences.

[–] lorty@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is a side to the fact that the US has been unsuccessful in modern conventional warfare that I did not even entertain. But it does make so much sense when you are the rabid former world power.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 days ago

It was honestly a matter of time. The US had to fall eventually and theyd always use nukes if they got desperate. I just cant believe it happened so fast.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Fucking twisted rhetoric. Referring to nuking someone in a first strike as "nuclear deterrence" is death cult double speak of the highest order.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It also seems to be assumed in their planning that Russia and China would just sit idly by as they nuke Iran which i HIGHLY doubt.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 3 days ago

What you just said is the definition of nuclear deterrence.

[–] darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I've often wondered and worried about this.

It's easy to be anti using nukes against another nuclear power that can completely destroy your country in retaliation (e.g. Russia), it's not so common when the enemy is a non-nuclear power who your simulations show would defeat you in a conventional war leaving you humiliated, weakened, and looking both for the whole world.

In such a situation it's obvious the option there if you'd lose in a conventional war is to deploy nuclear weapons. When you're the US you already have far too many of them for deterrence needs, they're decaying, after Ukraine your credibility is in question and nuking a smaller power that can't do the same back would send a message to the whole world: it doesn't matter if we can't defeat you conventionally, if our interests demand it we will obliterate you using nuclear weapons to maintain our empire and hegemony.

It won't cow China or Russia, it will cause them to build up even more capabilities and become alarmed but both already are to some degree by US saber rattling and actions in Ukraine as well as talk of actions in the SCS. But it doesn't have to, the point then is it cows smaller regional powers to not dare to challenge the US, to know there is ZERO HOPE, (hope has been killed so to speak) of resisting if the US deems there to be a strong enough imperative. That you either bend over and submit at our sanctions or you pray you're not important enough to war over because if the US goes to war and you're important enough and you start defeating them, they'll just nuke you. That's the message it sends. That you cannot win against the US unless you're a nuclear power and to nuclear powers it signals the US may be run by mad men who would even use nukes against them knowing they might be destroyed in the counter-attack.

For some countries becoming a nuclear power is possible but not for most. It's a time-consuming and expensive process to not only develop multiple, dozens of nuclear warheads but the capability to deliver them as payback intercontinentally to the US via ICBMs. It's also a process you cannot hide and once the US knows they might be tempted to nuke you to stop you from getting any further to say nothing of sanctioning and blockading you as they have done with the DPRK.

The thing is, what was stopping this from being done before was the US image, the propaganda narrative of this liberal/progressive shining city on a hill type place contrasted against "authoritarian" "dictatorships" of bad-places(tm), that it would look incredibly bad. But with Trump they've made a turn, no more of that, no more DEI, traditional values, traditional values and so on. Naked strength. And this I think is tied back to Ukraine, which was the moment they learned all that work, all that propaganda wasn't enough to get the global south on their side at which point some faction (which I believe has power now) said basically well we need to revert to the old ways of hard power and intimidation and open gangsterism then, hence allowing Musk to tear down the edifices of this old way of trying to shape the world, to bulldoze them in favor of this new policy, this new naked oppression and power.

More than that I'm afraid that Russia's constant threats of having to use their nuclear weapons against the west if they got directly involved, of outlining a policy where if a defeat is imminent they reserve the right to use them IF such a defeat was in a war of strategic importance necessary to the survival of the nation. I'm afraid their successful usage of this has only emboldened US planners to think and plan along similar lines and logic, the precedent is there so to speak for them. For the US defeat in any war against an important regional power like Iran would be a danger to the survival of their nation-empire so under this rational they could easily justify it using this kind of thinking. The west will never miss a beat to weaponize the desperation of a weaker country (Russia compared to US+NATO) to advance the conversation, the window of the acceptable in their interests.

And it makes sense from a cold calculating point of view. Most countries are not nuclear powers, those that are will not intervene and get in a direct war with the US to protect non-nuclear power countries who are not immediate neighbors and vital to security and interests (e.g. Vietnam and Korea for China, Ukraine, Georgia for Russia).

I honestly worry about Yemen, compared to Iran that at least has some strategic importance to Russia and some economic importance to China in the B&R, who would be outraged on any grounds but moral ones if Yemen was nuked by the US or the zionists? Not many major powers and it would be awfully tempting to make an example of them, perhaps even to use it to send a message to Iran before hitting them with nuclear weapons that they're serious and will use them.

Fact is also the US and the zionist entity smell blood in the water. Iran has been routed, they are on the back foot and have suffered major strategic defeats. Their influence and power is at a multi-decade low. They've lost Syria and Assad, Hezbollah is dazed and somewhat weakened with Lebanon pounded and their supply lines through Syria now cut meaning Hezbollah is weakened after being decapitated. Hamas can't be in a great position, there's a question I'd say of how much ammunition and weaponry they may still have for a prolonged war and sad as it is to say the zionist entity has basically won the battle, they've won US support to take and colonize parts of Gaza, they've destroyed large parts of it, they're trying to squeeze out the remaining Palestinians and I have doubts the Sunni Muslims in the region actually would do anything but some protests and flag burnings, nothing to topple the US regimes that rule them or cause the US to think twice in other words.

So the US wants to inflict the final blow on Iran and lock down hegemony and control of west Asia as part of an ability to cut off the belt and road, to encircle and blockade China as well as control that vital crossroads. Trump would accept their fealty, their subjugation to the US, their renunciation of ties with China, their pledge of obedience to the zionist entity, their in other words removal from the chessboard as an impediment to US control of the region.

[–] fire86743@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 days ago

Everything you have just said scares me and I hope it never happens.

[–] ComradeIntergalactic@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Maybe a violent revolution is needed now before the US fucks the entire world up.

[–] chickennuggies@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 3 days ago

lmao welcome back John Brown we've missed you <333

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

I'm still personally certain that the first post-ww2 proliferator of nuclear warfare will be Israel. The US has too many international enemies to risk uniting them all at once, but Israel is proving that you can all but turn an entire society into glass and dust without provoking more than a concerned letter from the most "civilised" world leader.

EDIT: having read the article I can see he makes a very good, if concerning, argument towards Trump being the triggerman for this fucked up timeline.

[–] darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Well in a way they would be but the US wants to be the one to actually field the weapons. The zionists have been saying they might resort to using their nukes and Trump and the US given the strategic situation are saying, "no, if they're used, we'll use them to assert our power and dominance and deterrence and enhance our credibility as an empire that can still fuck you up if you don't obey us". Plus the US doing it vs the zionist entity means less blow-back for the zionist entity directly. If the zionists do it, with the current climate against them through much of the world a BDS movement might build to a fever-pitch amid calls to completely isolate the outlaw state which would be a headache at least for the US requiring them to pour more resources in. But if the US does it, well the US is vital to world trade and though they're pissing people off with tariffs presently it's not practical to attempt to strangle them from a consumer point of view via buying choices and pressure campaigns given their size, reach, financial, economic, cultural, etc power.

And best of all with the US they have Trump in power who has been sold as an aberration. They can simply push him out or he'll die and then they paint his actions as too far, as being those of a dictator and that the US has changed(tm) and was like that then but has learned and is now better and a perfect angel.

Mostly the US fears its vassals nuclearizing and gaining independence from them that way. Very few strategic enemy countries to the US don't already have nuclear weapons already so the risk of proliferation is not really seen as a problem in using nukes. Vietnam still isn't likely to pursue a nuclear weapons program but even if they were they're important enough to China that the US couldn't invade without Chinese retaliation anyways. Other than that who is there? The AES alliance in Africa might have the raw uranium to make nuclear weapons possible but they lack the industry, the science, the knowledge, and the base to put them together and build ICBMs anywhere near fast enough to be able to create a credible deterrent (though they are close enough to Europe they could get by with shorter range missiles able to hit 2500miles away in say Berlin or Paris and use that to threaten the US into backing off, still even that would take a lot of work).

Importantly using nuclear weapons in defense of a vassal would the US may think re-assure other vassals like occupied Korea who have been murmuring about acquiring their own nukes, would re-assure them not to try and do that but that the US will use nukes in their favor if the time comes (hint: it won't as long as the DPRK can hit numerous cities in the US mainland in retaliation which it should be able to soon). So it would be a credibility building maneuver after Ukraine's humiliation.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think the main thing it accomplishes is it basically sets in stone the lines for WW3. If you support the US after they use a nuke your on their side, and if you don't your anti-imperialist, and on that side. No more neutrality at that point.

France has been talking about making a european nuclear umbrella. Russia, and China may do the same for Asia if the US actually uses some.

[–] darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Nuclear umbrella's are interesting to talk about but I think they're a bluff against any kind of peer power. Washington is not going to get LA, NYC, Dallas, Denver, San Diego, Boston, Washington DC and a hundred other American cities wiped off the map to avenge say Seoul getting nuked or Berlin getting nuked by the DPRK or Russia respectively.

Because nuclear war is hard to do in a limited way between nuclear powers. A nuclear power can nuke a non-nuclear power in a limited way because the non-nuclear power cannot respond with any nukes let alone a full barrage that completely destroys them. But once you hit back at a nuclear power that can wipe you off the map the doctrine states any limited strike is only an attempt to blind you and suppress your response before a full strike, you can't know what is or isn't coming in terms of more so protocol is launch a full response and at that point both parties are destroyed and those do no good to the umbrella party which previously was still intact and spared and could undertake other choices against the attacking party.

Likewise I'd have doubts if China extended a nuclear umbrella to say Iran that they'd be willing to hit the US with a nuke because the US hit Iran.

Certainly the US has a lot more to lose as does France in hitting back a big nuclear power than say China who is still a rising power, still does not have any kind of vassals, whose only interests in security are immediate neighbors like Vietnam/DPRK that they've assisted in the past militarily. But even there I think it would be a hard choice to make watching say the DPRK in flames but knowing if you hit the Americans back that Beijing and every other city in China will be in flames as well.

The US might buy such an umbrella for the DPRK and say Vietnam from China and not hit them but they wouldn't buy it for say Pakistan I think because of the dissimilarities there. Likewise the US probably buys Russia's threats to defend Belarus because well they've backed them into a corner, they know they've backed them into a corner and they have almost nothing left. The US on the other hand and France can stand to lose a lot, they have a lot of countries and/or ocean between them and enemy states like Russia/China.

I think it's easier to turn the other cheek unless you really think you can suppress the enemy's response.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 days ago

I think the solution to this is taking it out of your own hands. Yes launching a nuke from China towards the US in response might not be the smartest move or very likely, but if Iran were to somehow mysteriously acquire 15 ICBMs that may or may not have the Russian or Chinese flag on them covered up by an Iranian flag sticker... well whose to say how that happened, and now Iran can defend itself.

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

Very good points, especially within the context that even the (retired) generals acknowledging the fear of the ZE nuclearising without US approval.

[–] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 days ago

Well theyve actually been running drills with Israeli fighter jets being the ones guiding the US bomber in so... yeah you wouldnt be wrong really even in this case. Israel is very much pushing for this.

[–] chickennuggies@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 days ago

Don't forget their lovely Samson option... Yeah, I too don't think it'll be anyone else tbh.