Ask Lemmy

You might be missing a third place. I couldn't find one so I started a Meetup group and managed to get something going. We've had a couple dozen regulars in the past years. Can share more if you're interested.

I'm listening to an audio book called The Like Switch. I recommend it. It's about building and maintaining relationships.

Unfortunately, I don't have any good advice, but I do want to point out that making friends continues to become more difficult as you get older. From what I understand, it's important to have some sort of activity that takes you away from home and work where you can potentially meet people. When you get older and have a family, that becomes even more difficult as your spare time dries up.

As someone in my late 20’s and who’s moved around quite a bit, I will talk to most people about most things. If I want to know something (within reason), I’ll ask. I’ve made friends and formed a trivia group in a shared Lyft when they did them, just by asking if they liked trivia. I wanted to know about careers at a museum in NYC so I asked the woman working the desk and we got to chatting. I asked someone about the beer they got at a show and that lead to more conversations about our mutual interests. If I see someone wearing merch or something I like, I’ll tell them. These open conversations and can lead to more. Sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they lead to friendships and sometimes they don’t but it’s still a pleasant conversation nonetheless. It just depends on the person. If I embarrass myself I can laugh it off and take comfort it knowing I probably won’t see these people again or one of us will forget in a few days. It is harder if you’re a guy. I am also a guy but I have a baby face and have been told I have a “very non threatening vibe.” YMMV. I will add I have autism and I think the benefit of that is just breezing right past small talk.

I only find it hard because no one tries at all. St the beginning of my PhD I organized a ton of parties and near the end many in my own cohort would call on sick an hour before. We all have the same lives, I know they have no friends, what’s the point?

Luckily some of them were better than others but I feel people are so absorbed by their world and phones that they don’t step out much

Here's some advice from someone with a high nat charisma role on birth:

Gaining friends, lovers, or even acquaintances isn't a goal to be worked towards - rather - the best kinds of these relationships are byproducts of mutual interest and experiences.

If your efforts are only going towards showing up at social events to participate in small talk, then no wonder it feels like you're coming home from work. Because that's the same behavior expected at work.

This "social script" we're expected to follow at work is to maintain social standing to get work done, rather than grow and deepen connections.

Basically, work socialization and personal socialization should be approached differently, and taking the work approach to your private life will likely lead to the same kind of relationships you're building at work: simple and makes your work easier. (Rather than relationships that are deep, and make your life more colorful.)

Here's something to try the next time you find a group you want to be a part of:

• 1st: Don't talk about work itself. Talk about the actions you take at work. Don't say, "I work in sales" say "I sell shit to those that don't need it."

Talk about the specific actions you take, in work or anywhere else, and personalize them.

The fundamentals of any relationship are built on the aligned behaviors of individuals. The easiest way to determine if the way you behave is similar to others is to talk about how you act. And if you can add in your own opinion about those actions, even better. These small things communicate who you are much better than anything else. Actions speak louder than words, so try your best to speak about yourself as the actions you take - use verbs to describe yourself, not nouns.

• 2nd: Don't talk about yourself unless asked. Instead, engage with others to learn about them. Specially, what actions they like.

If you know someone is interested in something like bikes. Don't ask what bikes they like, ask if they "like the thrill of downhill mountain biking," or "prefer a chill bike ride through the park."

Do they watch movies? Don't ask "did you like that Movie?" Rather, ask "did you like pacing of that Movie?"

Verbs should also be at the heart of your inquiries into others, as they describe the actions others have that might align with yours.

That is - good relationships are built on mutual action, not mutual interest.

So don't ask, "How was work?" ask "What projects are you working on?" Then follow that inquiry up with more specifics on their behaviour through that project - "How hard was the project to complete? Who got in your way?"

Basically, socialize as if the people you want to hang around are all the main characters within their own show. They have adventures, villians, love interests, etc - and just spending time learning what those are, will make them feel closer to you. Once you know enough about them, you can begin asking them about the events in their own show. That is, in time, your small talk will grow from, "how was work?" to "did you get your evil manager fired over their bullshit harrasment?"

And that's the difference between a friend, and someone you know at work.

Eventually, when you learn about these people more, you'll discover the behaviour they have that aligns with yours. And eventually, you'll begin doing stuff together with them.

They like casual bike rides? Cool, give it a shot with them! They like seeing matinees on Sunday? Cool join em!

The more you show an interest in how people behave, the more likely it is they will want to include you as part of that behaviour.

• 3rd. Encourage others. Be their hype man.

You know how they act? Great. Encourage it. Sometimes, even encourage it with you included.

They love bike riding? Great. Tell them about the park near your house they should try. Heck. You can even join em.

People often have goals tied to their favorite behaviours. If you know what those goals are, you can encourage them to pursue them. When they succeed, you will now be a part of it they'll remember.

In time, you keep up the above, you'll be surrounded by people you know well, and whom you've shared a lot of activities with.

And they will without question enjoy you in their lives for it.

I don't talk about work unless the other person brings it up. I stick with, how's it going or how's life. What's been going on with you since last time? Whatcha been up to?

Keep practicing having a natural conversation but try not to think of it as practice. I was super socially awkward when I was younger and have only gotten better at it with time. It gets easier.

It sounds like you're trying to do forced corporate networking. I.e. create a relationship for the purpose of the relationship.

That doesn't work.

Find some activity you like to do, or volunteer somewhere. Show up a lot. Those are your friends now. They can introduce you to others.

I'm also in my late 20s, and I'm an immigrant (changed continents)

When I meet new people, ai usually have a hard time coming up with something to talk about, so I had (still have) a hard time making new friends.

What helped me was to have continuous contact with people in a focused environment, for example: with around 6 months of office attendance I started warming up to my new colleagues (which eventually became friends), even though we were usually talking about work back then, we started to talk about it less and less up to a point where we don't even work together anymore, but keep in touch

I found another of such environments in sports practices as well: don't want to talk about anything? Fine, let's just keep this ball rolling back and forth" but then eventually (again after a few months of continuous contact with the same group of people) things started to warm up a little

So to sum it up I'd say: patience is key, it usually takes a while before prople start to get along well

you need hobbies

Hello, my likely undiagnosed autistic friend.

Here is your problem:

hang out

It should be more on a regular basis with a focal point than just random meals. Board-gaming, glass-blowing, rock-climbing, something—what do you like or would be willing to try?

When you have another topic as the focal point of your meetup, there is less weight on you to have to purely carry the conversation nonstop. Join or start a movie-watching or hiking group, etc. There's so much out there. Forming a new group takes a lot of sustained effort over years, but if some new additions get interested enough to help run events, it gets way easier. Accept help quickly, after some brief vetting.

The key is common interests. I'm into theatre and roller derby, so I participate in those communities, and friendships result from enjoying shared interests.

I can certainly relate to you, but unfortunately don't have any tips to offer.

The biggest thing is that if you want to hang out with people you will need to take the initiative to make it happen and not rely on being invited. If you are already doing that, keep it up! But that is frequently the second hurdle for people after not going out and being social which is the biggest barrier to meeting new people and it sounds like you are going out.

The other thing is being a little more open with new people while avoiding an info dump. Mention a couple things and see if they respond, and make sure to express interest in things they bring up when possible. Like I simply don't care about sports but can talk about someone else's enjoyment of sports instead of dismissing all sports talk.

But I can also relate to how some people feel like a chore to talk to and others come easy. But not everyone who is easy to talk to shares interests, which kinda sucks. That is why I haven't really made new friends for years as I have four friends who are easy to talk to and we interact daily online, and honestly expanding my friend group is intimidating after the last attempt to expand based on a hobby ended up with most of them being maga idiots. It was worth the try though!

An important bit of information that's missing here is what kind of culture are you in/from on the coconuts/peaches scale?

(Coconuts - hard to get to know initially but very warm once that hurdle is overcome. Peaches - warm to everyone but very difficult to get truly close to. Finland vs. USA, for example)

Your best bet is to find activities that you enjoy that you can do on a regular basis in an environment where you'll be around other people who also participate regularly. Sign up for a class, join a sports team, volunteer somewhere, find a local meetup group, or even just become a regular at a bar.

Making new friends definitely gets harder as we get older because people are busy and just don't have the same opportunities to casually yet regularly interact with strangers any more. As kids, most people repeatedly engaged with the same group of people on a daily or weekly basis due to school, sports, etc., and the familiarity that came with that made it relatively effortless to develop some friendships.

Even when I totally hit it off with people I've just met and we exchange contact details, I've rarely ever intentionally hung out with them again. The new friendships that I've formed as an adult were either with a friend of a friend or with people I happened to cross paths with many times before we ever intentionally made plans together. It's those repeated, low stakes interactions that have been most successful at forming new friendships.

It is hard making friends, and there is no straight answer since all of our lives are very different. That's honestly the main reason why its hard to make friends.

I would join a sports league, book clubs, etc. Something where everyone who goes, has the intention to return.

Also, in your post example it sounds like you went out once with these people. As soon as your done hanging out with people, I would shoot a message saying that you should do it again. Be the reason people come together, because no one wants that job because its tough.

Finding friends becomes harder the older you get, so you still have time and youth on your side. However, do not write off on the ability of going out more, this is still a thing you have to do, to get anyone at all. You can make online friends for sure, but they're still people on lists, behind screens and hundreds to thousands of miles away from you. You won't get to them unless you build healthy savings and arrange things.

Your key is hobbies, what do you do? What do you like? There's a community out there for everything. Finding friends is a lot of wheeling and dealing, don't be too hard on yourself for not finding too much to be compatible with someone over. You never know if you're dodging a bullet because the worst thing than just being or feeling alone, is wasting time on the wrong people.

you don't just become friends with people to become friends. there needs to be some glue that brings you two together.

so for example back when you were in primary school, you had that glue- you took the same class as someone or rode home in the same bus, etc.

as an adult, if you want to make friends, you need to find some glue. it could be working together, or playing dungeons and dragons, or a deep appreciation of black and white cinema. who knows

so i will suggest one thing and it will only really work if you live in Florida. go to kava bars. just go with your laptop and hang out there drinking kava and doing your own thing. go every once in a while and you will meet people and make friends. it's one of the few modern "3rd place" locations.

Making friends is not easy (it can be frightening too) and takes time & patience.

Also you need to differentiate between true friendship (which is probably rarer than true love) and acquaintance. My best friend and I have been friends since we were 14 (we're well into our fifties, now). We know and appreciate a few other people, but there is only one of us for the other and that is despite meeting a few very remarkable persons in our respective lives (and living away from one another), friendship is very rare. Don't try to force it.

It also require a lot of trial and errors. Friendship is rare which means simply means that often it will not be friendship. No matter how nice the person is. And then one day, without them or you being bad persons, your relation will come to an end. They're aren't friends, that's all.

And then there is that... Remember my best friend? Our first encounter back in school where he just landed and where I was considered one of the smart-ass, we almost fight together because we were, and all those years later still are, at the complete political opposite and we both wanted to prove the others who was the smartes-ass and, surprise, we both were punished for that by the school which let us chose between being expelled for a few days (it was a strict school) or spend a couple hours locked in classroom and talk together, calmly and under distant surveillance. We decided we would talk—our teachers back then were smart and I wish for any kid to be taught by the same kind. We talked and we talked more and, despite our differences or maybe because of them, we realized we could learn a lot from the other and that we kinda appreciated the other's being there. So we kept on talking after the punition was over and... never stopped.

All of that to say, don't be afraid to try to go towards people whose company you would not think you could enjoy that may be worth a try ;)

Like suggested, hobbies are also great way to meet people. Younger, I was into model making (little planes and tanks). I met a few real nice people, a few assholes too. I was (and still am to this day) into history which was another opportunity to meet like-minded people. Any hobby will do.

Also, if you're anything like me making friends is difficult because, well, I'm so fucking shy. I will literally blush when someone I don't already know greets me (and I'm almost 60 dude, tall, bald and build like... someone that never had much to worry about roaming outside late at night). If you're timid, be fine with it. It's part of what make you who you are.

Last thing, don't think you need to be with people your age. I know it has become kind of the norm for younger generations but it was not for me and it is still not. As a kid, I was much more at ease with adults (I could talk with them like I was never able to speak with kids my age). That may be something else you may want to experiment with. The same when I was at uni.

If you read my rambling until here, thanks. I genuinely don’t know any more.

Thx for reading mine, then ;)

I regularly see younger people feeling lost and, more worryingly, ashamed or even afraid to dare admitting they don't know what to do about this or that. Be it about friendship or anything. Asking is a nice step in the right direction, if you're asking me.

You need to do stuff with people. A lot of friendship is based on shared experience. Just meeting someone isn't enough, you need to do something with them. So, hobbies, classes, volunteer groups, etc.

I've noticed some of my pals have become more insular since getting married which is a mistake IMO. When you hit your 30s it becomes harder to make friends so you need to tend to the ones you have.

There's a few things here.

And given how they rarely invite me back, I guess the feeling is mutual

Based on your language, that's an assumption. I know it's easy to assume people are uninterested or hate you or whatever, but people also suck at initiating things and are as unsure as you are. It could just be you guys didn't vibe, and that's fine. Invite them again or wait to see if they show interest again. That'll tell you what you need to know.

I am quite cold towards people I don't know

I get that completely. I used to be this way, until I started working in a more social environment, then I developed a skill to be fake-charismatic. That might sound exhausting but it does help others feel like you don't despise their presence, and they'll warm up to you better. And as for the "full sales presentation mode", I get it. To be honest, asking questions is a great way of stimulating conversation, and it doesn't have to be just about work. A good piece of advice is to ask questions you want asked about yourself. People love answering questions, and then they'll get curious about you.

Some events seem to have a lot more of "my people", some less

So, you've found people you can click with, that's great news. Now it's just a matter of establishing and maintaining connections, inviting people places and doing things that are within both of your interests. But definitely gauge their interest. If they seem to be drifting off, don't push them. Also, while being sure to show interest in hanging out, don't be the only one showing interest. There's people who feed off of treating others like shit while wanting to receive all the attention. You don't want people like that in your life. You want a friend who invites you as well.

how could I change this?

You're not really doing anything wrong per se. You just need to believe in yourself and have the courage to keep going even if things get tough or you mess up. Because that's how you learn! Also, people have their own issues and you can't control that. Just keep going at it and with enough time, you'll have a great group of your own people.

Also, adding this at the end, but new friends can be very unsure but still want to invite you. If you ever reject an invite, you need to be the one to invite them next time. Otherwise they'll perceive that as you being uninterested in them.

No, pretty easy to make friends. Closing in middle age, a bunch of variety of people in different age groups.

Don't know what advice would be real or helpful to you but whenever you feel like it's not worth it, don't pursue it. Whoever you randomly encounter that you like, keep hanging close to them. Make sure you're someone who makes things happen, don't just be invited to stuff. It takes effort at first but you shouldn't feel exhausted. If that happens (over and over, not once) you're not with your people. Make sure you have boundaries and demands, not in their faces but for yourself. Invite people to things you'd wanna do and if they don't like it that's ok, if they put you down for it, fuck 'em.

Something I randomly picked up along the way is the lifeguard motto (or whatever it's called,ni don't know...) you have to save yourself before you can save anyone else, it's an analogy, ok? Make sure YOU have fun first and then you can accurately see how other people behave and feel.