Welcome to MarvelStudios, a community for discussing all things related to Marvel TV/Film productions with a focus on Marvel Studios.
This community is a place to discuss, share and generally have fun with all things Marvel Studios.
In addition like any community we follow the Lemmy.World content policy rules. In short, don't attack people or groups.
When should something no longer be considered a spoiler? In general use your best judgement. If want something more specific,
I thought it was pretty obvious he was going to be the next Cap after End Game (? The one where they finally beat Thanos). Even if you hadn't seen Winter Soldier, it was super obvious foreshadowing in Endgame.
I vaguely remember big boss being a woman in MGS3 but then in 5 suddenly they're a man?!
You know you done fucked up when Hideo Kojima can't follow your storyline.
We will know the MCU is truly cooked when either an American Kingdom Hearts uberfan, or Tetsuya Nomura himself can't figure out the MCU plotline.
If kojima can't follow your story, you know you're cooked.
What does "officially becoming Cap" mean?
Steve Rogers Captain America literally passes the Captain America shield to Sam Wilson in Endgame. Is that not officially Sam Wilson Captain America's start?
Sure, Falcon and the Winter Soldier will go on to tell the story of Sam's struggle in becoming the next Captain America, but by that series end, Sam is definitely Captain America.
When Brave New World starts, Sam is Captain America. The opening battle, that's Sam Wilson Captain America.
If you've seen Endgame, you know Sam is Cap. If you've seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier, you know Sam is Cap. If your introduction is Brave New World... Sam is Cap.
That said I get the Brave New World & Thunderbolts confusion. Bucky is a Captain America character, so seeing Bucky in the Thunderbolts trailer makes that film seem like a Captain America film. I know it's not that simple and it's a shared universe, but I get that one.
In the Thunderbolts Trailer, it shows US Agent (who has a costume similar to Captain America) using a round shield to block gunfire. If that trailer played before the movie he was watching, it's understandable someone that didn't watch Falcon and Winter Soldier would think "oh that guy is Captain America now, I guess? Thought Sam Wilson was going to be Captain America... but ok, I guess." Then the move starts and it actually is Sam Wilson as Captain America.
This is the problem with there being so many entries into the franchise and filmmakers assuming everyone has watched them all. Most people aren't going to know who US Agent is and from the Thunderbolts trailer, they might assume it's a new Captain America.
He did say that he vaguely remembered the end of Endgame with the handing over of the shield, and that he did not see Falcon and Winter Soldier, so from his perspective it does seem jarring for him to be Captain America all of a sudden. Perspectives matter.
If I had to guess what he was communicating it would be about an official re-showing of the handover of the mantle in the beginning of this new movie, and not requiring people to have seen a previous TV series.
It could have even been just a montage, from him being given the shield, to where he was at the beginning of the opening battle in this movie, mixing in a recap of Falcon and Winter Soldier best scenes.
~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~
What the fuck is that licensing link at the bottom of your comment all about?
But that's my point, you don't need to have seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It adds character growth and is worth seeing, but if you skip it and only watch Endgame and Brave New World, he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
Additionally if there were any confusion, before Sam Wilson gets all suited up we watch a news anchor talk about Sam Wilson as Captain America, cut to a bar where Sam Wilson is called Cap and then the bartender repeats that the drink is on the house for Cap.
No one watched Spider-Man No Way Home and went, wait, when did Tony Stark die? Why is Peter so sad about Tony Stark?
I havent seen Brave New World yet, but Marvel movies really should start doing something in their intros to briefly show important moments in prequel movies
he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
But he's just handed a shield, and nothing more, at the end of Endgame.
That just shows a beginning, and the new movie shows an end, but nothing in between is shown, unless you've seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~
Pulling the scene from IMDB,
Sam Wilson: Only thing bumming me out is the fact that I have to live in a world without Captain America.
Steve Rogers: Oh. That reminds me...
[reaches under the bench and takes out his old Captain America shield]
Steve Rogers: Try it on.
[Sam stares a few moments in stunned silence, then slowly picks up the shield and puts it on]
Steve Rogers: How's it feel?
Sam Wilson: Like it's someone else's.
Steve Rogers: It isn't.
Sam Wilson: [deeply moved] Thank you. I'll do my best.
Steve Rogers: That's why it's yours.
Where is the ambiguity? It's not hand him the shield and then nothing. They have a conversation, if you watch the scene the camera hangs on Sam when he holds the shield. He is feeling the weight of this decision.
Look at the opening of Captain America Civil War. Wanda is fighting alongside Steve Rogers and Falcon. Is she an Avenger? I know at the end of Age of Ultron she turns against Ultron and then she is in the Avengers compound but the film cuts off before Steve says "Assemble", he just says "Avengers...". Civil War would have been a better film if, instead of the opening battle, Steve took Wanda aside and said, "Hey it's cool that you're an Avenger now."
Would the solution have been for Brave New World to have a scene where the news reporter says," As everyone knows Steve Rogers famously handed the title of Captain America to Sam Wilson."?
Smh at what anime will do to a motherfucker. There's nothing wrong with expecting the audience to read between the lines
I saw the movie, no reason to quote the scene. My point still stands.
What you quoted just shows the very beginning, the genesis, and doesn't show the journey, which is what I believe Hideo Kojima was talking about. The journey.
~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~
If he cared that much about the journey, wouldn't he follow it the whole way? Why is he complaining that, since he didn't follow the story, he isn't getting the whole story?
If he doesn't want to watch all the little bits here and there, he doesn't have to. There's more than enough there to show where it was leading. If you want to see the how and why... watch the show. It's not like it's hidden away in a back room somewhere.
You would have to ask him, but I don't think it's realistic to force someone to have to see Falcon and Winter Soldier first, to understand the movie they're actually going to see at that moment.
At the very least there should be a recap, that's normally what they do in Hollywood, to bring viewers up to speed. Showing the origin story, even as a recap, would be helpful.
~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~
I literally just said you don't have to watch it to understand. Just that you'd need to watch it to get the whole story. Which, if you're interested in... you watch. If you're not, you don't. You aren't missing anything crucial to watching the movie by missing the series.
Of course, if what you want to do is complain about Marvel content being significant, it provides an excellent starting point. Which seems to at least be what you want to do.
But wouldn't the journey of Sam Wilson be Captain America Winter Soldier, Captain America Civil War, Avengers Infinity War, & Avengers Endgame?
Sam doesn't just suddenly show up in Endgame and get the shield. In fact he gets to make a fun Winter Soldier callback in Endgame by saying "on your left".
If we want to make the argument that Falcon and the Winter Soldier should have been a film, that's a fine argument to make. I think Sam is a better defined character as a result of that series, but I don't think it's required if you want to believe he is Captain America. Looking at just the films we see Sam's journey.
Plus, if you're looking for a Sam Wilson journey... That's what Brave New World is. It tells the story of a non-super powered human, fighting in a world of super powered people.
It felt so strange to me, as it seemed like Bucky was the more natural choice to pick up the mantle. Might've been more interesting too
Why do you think that?
Stronger personal ties to Steve, with connections to his entire journey and villains, with similar abilities. Falcon feels like just some dude without the same buildup or connection to Captain America.
I haven't read the comics at all so this is just impressions from the films.
At the end of the day they are stories targeted mostly at children or at least need to be fairly sanitized for kids. I don't see how they could make a multiple murderer and killer of iron mans parents the new captain America in the MCU.
The Russian puppet is more believable as a member of Congress.
Fair enough. I'd personally find it more interesting, and the baggage he'd have to deal with more directly tied to Steve's story. He'd also have the best idea of "what would Steve do" and struggling to meet that ideal while also struggling with a tortured past and forging a new path is worth exploring, with most of it already set up.
I certainly think they could have gone that route. I think Falcon and Winter Soldier does a good job exploring that idea. I do think handing it to Sam is interesting from a non-super soldier standpoint.
