this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works 91 points 2 years ago (5 children)

We need to abolish right to work laws. Or at least restructure them. I shouldn't be able to be fired for literally any reason they can come up with. Even fast food jobs should have contracts with certain clauses to protect the workers. You sign it when you start and you can't be let go until it expires or you break it.

[–] MirthfulAlembic@lemmy.world 78 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Not that I disagree with your premise, but that's an "at will" law area, not "right to work" (can't be forced to join a union/pay union dues in a unionized workplace).

To add, some argue at will is fair because it goes both ways, but it definitely doesn't. If your employer fires you suddenly for no reason, there's no real consequences. If you quit suddenly for no reason, you can get blackballed.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 years ago

Yeah I knew it wasn't the right wording I just couldn't remember exactly what it was called.

But that's exactly what I was bringing up. I'm supposed to work a 2 week notice but they can fire me instantly because I didn't smile at the manager when walking into work.

[–] QHC@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If your employer fires you suddenly for no reason, there’s no real consequences.

Depends on the industry and location. If they do that a few times in relatively small industry, or in a captured but small market, word gets around and suddenly that company has difficulty hiring in the future.

[–] MirthfulAlembic@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

That's true. I work in a somewhat "small" work world for my area of expertise, and word does get around about bad employers. People seem to have a short memory once they start offering higher salaries, even though they never keep those up with inflation. A few years later, and they're working for a shit boss with average pay.

[–] Velociraptor@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I was fired earlier this year because they manufactured some drama after I needed a sudden comprehensive additional surgery when a planned one round something alarming that demanded specialist surgeons. I feel like we really should not be in a country where a company can decide to screw your life at time of firing and then screw you for future jobs by not providing anything truthful about your time there. I'm still struggling months later, including the general anxiety of knowing I could go bust my ass for someone and have them do this to me all over again. Fuck this predatory atmosphere we seem to just celebrate.

[–] Drusas@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago

And you're not entitled to FMLA until you've been somewhere for a year! Our society is so hostile to the average person.

[–] TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

At least in the states that I've worked in (NY anf CA) if you're terminated without documentation proving cause, you qualify for unemployment benefits.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's the same in my state but unemployment is only a fraction of what you made hourly

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[–] Foggyfroggy@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

Why do you hate capitalism?! /s But seriously, I agree. Government regulation is the only thing that can force a corporation to do something that hurts profits like respecting workers’ rights.

[–] Iteria@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago (4 children)

The question I have about people who are against at will is the flip side, which is being locked into a hellish job for some set period. I have had jobs that deteriorated my mental health. With at will I can just walk out the door whenever I want. Not so if both employer and employee are bound by some cool down counter clause.

Even without abuse there is opportunity cost to staying at your company. I've seen family members on the spot quit to care for people they cared about, but not people anyone would consider close enough to be covered by anything like FMLA, like your best friend's child. I quit jobs that interfered with my college education.

It sucks to be let go, but I don't think people consider if it might make more suffering yo be forced to stay. I can't see a situation where companies have to give notice, but employees don't. Sure I guess employees can sabotage their workplaces to be sent home with pay, but what a fantastic way to catch a charge and screw yourself over forever.

It's food for thought.

[–] Kiernian@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Are you saying that in countries where employers can't just make up reasons to divest themselves of employees without repercussion or paying unemployment that the employees themselves are somehow bound to their employer and can't just walk out?

Unless you're under some contract, I don't see how that would be enforced other than having laws on the books in individual countries about a minimum required notice.

Even if a country DOES have laws on the books stating all employees in all full time jobs must provide x weeks of notice before quitting, if the same country has a bunch more clauses to protect employees from employers than the U.S. currently does I have to imagine there are protections in place for the employees in cases of hostile work environments or whatever.

I can't see a situation where a country that protects employees from the sort of hostile, predatory, dehumanizing behavior we see carried out consistently by U.S. companies wouldn't have continued to take said employees into account while also protecting their country's employers from things like large scale business-wide walkouts or whatnot.

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[–] Damage@slrpnk.net 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The "cool down" period in many cases is just a few days when it's the employee resigning. If your job sucks so much that you can't stomach being at it for another week, you've got other problems.

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[–] dreadgoat@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago

In practice, employment contracts are always good for employees and usually bad for employers. You don't want to be locked into a job? Then don't sign a contract that locks you in. Just refuse, as just about any sane person would.

Employers WOULD refuse to be locked in, except sane governments force them to. Sane governments do not force regular citizens into indentured servitude.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

That's why I brought up a restructuring. The ability to quit whenever should always be an option but being fired without notice for anything that isn't just gross incompetence/negligence should not. I should be able to quit because my manager pissed me off. I shouldn't get fired because I pissed the manager off.

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[–] sparemethewearysigh@lemmy.world 81 points 2 years ago (5 children)

My company initiated a hiring freeze last November, just after my group lost 3 team members. Then in February they did layoffs, my group was not effected. The hiring freeze is now lifted, but what we were never told is that when they did the layoffs, they also “erased” any positions that were open prior to the layoffs, including the positions that were open in my group before the hiring freeze the previous November. So those jobs are just gone, and the slack that my group has picked up? That’s just the new normal now. It’s bullshit.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 21 points 2 years ago

And you're currently interviewing yes?

[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So you're doing more work for the same pay? If it's not in the job description/contract, then they can fuck off.

[–] its_pizza@sopuli.xyz 31 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Every (US) job description I've had save one had a line to the effect of "... and other duties as required by management." Not to follow would be considered insubordination and could lead to termination with cause. Job description in this case is just a broad-stroke outline of what the job is supposed to entail.

The "save one" was a job with a strong union presence. In that case, going outside my job description could lead to me and my manager being in trouble.

[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee 21 points 2 years ago

And this is why unions are so important. A union for a former job of mine also made a big deal about not only duties beyond the job description but workload beyond normal.

[–] bookmeat@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I once worked a call centre during late shift and my manager asked us to clean the bathrooms. I told him they can hire a janitor because I won't be cleaning anything since I wasn't hired to clean. Didn't have to clean the bathrooms. Sometimes standing up for yourself works

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[–] Foggyfroggy@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

“You didn’t quiet quit!…we, uh, quiet cut you! It was totally our idea first.”

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 2 years ago

Shit like this is why people are quitting.

[–] bobzilla@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

Tell them it's against your religion to take on extra work without extra compensation.

[–] dynamojoe@lemmy.world 80 points 2 years ago

Surely a publication like The Wall Street Journal wouldn't have an agenda to support... go back to the office and be grateful for your ever-shrinking share, plebians

[–] Tygr@lemmy.world 59 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Quiet Cutting is also done in ways the article is not mentioning. We used to call them hiring freezes. In the mortgage industry where there are positions with higher attrition, they simply allow the employees to quit and they never rehire that position.

[–] Foggyfroggy@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Isn’t this just standard operating procedure? And, the funniest part is if they can operate without those people what fool hired them in the first place? Typical corporate speak trying to spin it in their favor.

[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

You think they operate without those people without others picking up some slack?

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[–] comedy@kbin.social 45 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I practice quiet shitting while at work. I don't let anyone know I'm leaving the office, and I head down the elevator to the downstairs bathroom. It's a nice break from work. I recommend it to anyone.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I take the opposite approach. When I shit at work, I make sure they can hear it.

[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

You got one of those five gallon bucket shitters at your desk? The reverb is amazing.

[–] kinther@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Are you my coworker that grunts and strains when others are in the bathroom?

[–] jbrains@sh.itjust.works 29 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Companies are firing people? Weird. Sociopaths gonna sociopath.

[–] TheDubz87@lemmy.world 39 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Reassigning people into jobs that they hate in hopes that they quit, to avoid paying severance packages.

We have a guy at the company I work for that just went through this. They did away with his division, reassigned him to a new department where you're on call 24/7 working holidays and weekends. He jumped ship to us, but because they didn't fire him, he got no payout because he wasn't let go.

[–] athos77@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

They did away with his division, reassigned him to a new department where you’re on call 24/7 working holidays and weekends

He might have a case for constructive dismissal; he might want to talk with an employment lawyer. Constructive dismissal can include "Making unreasonable changes to an employees’ working hours or place of work".

[–] TheDubz87@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Maybe, I'll bring that up to him. But they've done this to every department. Project managers are now trying to handle way more than they should and techs are either green as grass or completely overwhelmed with work.

They actually pay us now for the services that they did away with within their own company (whatever sense that makes), so he basically has the same job, just with us. We work with this company closely so we knew him pretty well already and honestly we were happy to bring him on. No training required lol I think he just wanted to get out before his life got turned upside down.

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[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

tale as old as time. we'll make your life a living hell until you quit just so we don't have to pay to fire you.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago

I would take so much advantage of that.

Come in late, don't do much, let people steal stuff, take a nap at work, and do all kinds of stuff until they rather fire me than keep me around doing to "worst kind of jobs".

And if they sue, sue them right back since that stuff is illegal.

[–] StarServal@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago

This is quite literally the definition for “The beatings will continue until morale improves.”

[–] Drusas@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I didn't get any severance because I was "laid off" after I became disabled. Probably should have fought that, but...I had just become disabled.

[–] jbrains@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Reassigning people into jobs that they hate in hopes that they quit, to avoid paying severance packages.

IBM technique.

Nice.

[–] TheDubz87@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

IBM is literally the example in the article lol

[–] punkwalrus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

When I did sales management in the late 80s to mid 90s, we called them "penalty boxes." To get a manager to quit, you reassign then to a store or location that is either guaranteed to be soul sucking, high crime, or otherwise not profitable enough to make commission or bonuses. They do that in education as well, like send teachers to difficult schools to get them to quit and skirt union rules.

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[–] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago

Fuck Newscorp lol

[–] foo@programming.dev 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Quite quitting sounds like business as usual.

[–] kinsnik@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

it is. quiet quitting is a bullshit word that corporate created to make people feel guilty for just doing their jobs, because you are supposed to live for work or something. it is all bullshit

[–] epigone@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

next sick, sad world: quiet wars

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