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Freed Israeli hostages held by Hamas were terrified IDF airstrikes would kill them
(www.businessinsider.com)
this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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Do you have a good resource for that? All I can find are unsubstantiated claims and refutations of said claims. With the only thing that might hold any water being speculation that israeli police and hamas may have caught civilians in the crossfire but even that is pretty weak and I can't find anything other than "it probably happened because it almost always happens when police open fire".
https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/viral-post-seeks-to-change-festival-massacre-narrative/
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/nov/17/stew-peters/no-this-video-doesnt-show-israeli-military-killing/
The world is already full of enough misinformation. So how about we don't shit on the memory of murdered civilians and use them to build a narrative to benefit politicians?
Here is one from today with quotes from Israelis.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/05/israeli-captives-confirms-hostages-killed-israeli-fire/
Is that during the Oct 7 massacre (aka "the Rave")? Or is that when they were being held hostage in Gaza?
Because I think even the IDF has acknowledged they probably murdered some hostages while they were indiscriminately bombing and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians. But what the previous poster implied was that the IDF were murdering people during the massacre... which reeks of "false flag operation" conspiracy theories.
Here's the media basis report on the source:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-grayzone/
The releasee is quoted in the article linked as saying they were fired on by IDF helicopters after being taken hostage.
Obviously assigning motive is going to be speculation. Was the IDF deliberately killing hostages? Seems unlikely to me. Deliberately careless with the lives of hostages when trying to kill Palestinians? Based on the looser use of force rules we've seen from the IDF that seems perfectly possible.
shhhh come now. Don't feed the internet outrage machine. Better to keep a neutral tone so you don't shut down rational argument.
The IDF has a public policy not to allow hostage-taking and even killing the hostage if necessary. It’s controversial but not a new policy.
The link you gave said this was a military policy used.on military, not civilians.
It also appears they stopped doing it a decade ago, according to your source.
If you read the link there’s a controversy on whether they stopped at all. Many of the families of hostages and the released hostages have accused the Israeli government of trying to kill them.
Yeah. I am not going to be "neutral" any time people are ignoring who actually murdered and raped civilians because attributing their deaths to someone else is more politically expedient. I do the same any time someeone DARES to talk about "crisis actors" with regard to the daily school shooting in the US.
I don't fucking care about "the internet outrage machine". I care about the people who suffered regardless of what side they are on. The very least we can do for the dead is to respect why they died. That includes who pulled the trigger and why.
so, you're calling out the IDF killing 10 Gazans for every Israeli death? or do those not count?
Sorry. Are you incapable of doing two things at once?
ok so you are, and not just coming with the copout of "but Hamas human shields so IDF absolved", now what about the farce that is acting as if this shit started in October of this year
"why" includes things such as the persecution of the Palestinian people by Israel. It also included (alleged) manipulation and empowerment of Hamas by Iran.
Here is an idea: try to read the posts you respond to. Rather than just immediately categorizing it into one of many straw men.
Bibi funds hamas
The rape claim is false and unsubstantiated. A lie by the IDF. Just like the 40 beheaded babies
Zero evidence is available I have tried looking for it. Hamas did not rape anyone on Oct7.
They did kill non combatants. They did not rape anyone.
Look harder
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
And please, actually read the article. Including the horrific depictions of mutilation and mass rape. Understand what you are defending when you say shit like this. Because just because the Israeli Government have been locking Palestinians in an open air concentration camp for decades does not mean that Hamas are not just as evil as any other Islamic State organization.
Your article basically said "we BBC journalists saw a video of people that said they saw a gang rape, no rape kits or videos of it or any evidence though, trust me bro israel wouldn't lie"
Try reading the article you linked. You're linking a known propaganda outlet that verbatim quotes IDF propaganda with 0 evidence. The same site that spread the "40 beheaded babies" lie.
I recommend you watch this Owen Jones video about the israeli attack montage they only show to journalists. Israel put all the worst stuff they could find into that video but there was zero evidence of rape.
https://youtu.be/mc5iG3DX7ho?si=7AVWII5YTGojRr_j
So because there is not explicit footage of Hamas engaging in rape, the following is irrelavent?
Even if you believe that there is a focused effort to plant government agents at every single level and with multiple aide organizations all to promote some evil conspiracy: The above is footage and images that reporters (and civilians who click the wrong links online...) have seen.
I realize people have difficulty understanding people (that they misguidedly think) are fighting for a cause they care about can do no wrong but... Hamas is REALLY fucking evil and so is erasing the suffering of these women because it doesn't support your "Freedom fighters" narrative.
You still haven't watched the video huh. There are a gazillion cameras in israel and not one of them captured any rape, nor was israel able to produce any rape kits. There were multiple calls for the IDF to use rape kits to provide conclusive evidence and they just decided to ignore them all.
I don't accept "some anonymous israeli said this happened, no you can't even see the video of them saying it" as evidence.
You are so far gone on the "Hamas evil" train that you won't look at the facts in front of you and are willing to just blindly repeat any IDF accusation. Just like the 40 beheaded babies.
There is no evidence of rape. It was an IDF accusation made at the beginning of the conflict that hasn't been backup up by any evidence after two months.
you haven't seen these photographs huh
no one has. and I heard the AP had embedded reporters with the militants.
Just because someone saw a hostage with blood on her pants doesn’t mean she was raped. A lot of hostages were shot etc.
The article talks about the presence of a body with a broken pelvis. I’m pretty sure rapes don’t cause that, despite the author’s insinuation. It can happen from bombing or people being run over.
Is this the standard of evidence we’re using?
Apologies for the misunderstanding. Not neutral as not taking sides, neutral as in neutral tone. Calm, to the point and not full of anger and high emotion.
Moral outrage is a biological response to horror, but that warm feeling of righteous indignation does not help anyone. It makes anyone who might need to hear what you have to say instantly stop listening.
baby you can cry about tone policing all you want, but you are being extremely abrasive which is why people don't want to talk to you.
You're not being tone policed, you think you can just act like an asshole if you have a good enough reason.