Only for Christians. I would assume this still holds for Jewish people, as well as some christians who still holds to the Old Testament due to Jesus saying that the old text will not be superceded.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

For reference, here's that verse, Matthew 5:18:

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Thats the KJV, here's a NKJV:

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Here's a bunch of other translations:

https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

Absolutely tons of branches/denominations use this to justify upholding whatever their particular interpretation of whatever law they perceive from the Old Testament, the Tanakh/Torah.

'The law' is literally what Torah means in Hebrew, the Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament, The Tanakh broadly is the entire Hebrew Bible.

[–] callouscomic@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Because the New Testament is better? The NT is especially sexist towards women. Like:

they need to be quiet (1 Cor 14:34-35)
they can't divorce but men can (Matthew 5:32 and 19:9) and it implies she has no autonomy since his act alters how she is viewed
also 1 Timothy 2:9-15 is quite the ride, with dressing modestly to worship God, be quiet, fully submit, no teaching a man, be quiet again, men came first, women sinned first, and only birthing children can save them.

Holy shit. Those are just a few.

But it is true the Old Testament is quite the doozy.

We gotta go back to the good Old Testament for one of my favs (Genesis 19):

Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

Then later his wife was turned to salt cause she bad (because of course only women do bad things, didn't yiu know? /s). Then his daughters, who had been spared what you read above, wound up getting their dad drunk and fucking him in a cave to continue the bloodline.

Now, realize this whole story is being told cause Lot was the right God-loving soul they just HAD to save before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Everyone else was "worse?"

The lesson I was taught when I was younger was that Lots daughters were evil and this was in zero way Lots fault (the incest). He apparently didn't raise them to be that way. You know, with his attitude of "please fuck my daughters and spare the rest." Somehow their actions were in no way reflective of his character as a father.

Also we ignore the part where he tried to give them away to be raped by an entire town.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Lot's offer to the mob was meant to be an allegorical lesson on obligations to guests. Basically a hyperbolic 'this is how far you have go to protect guests in your house.' In the modern age it would be a hotel clerk holding off a mob with a shotgun or something like that.

I'm not sure if the cave incest had a lesson behind it, but the impetus was his daughters thought they were the last people on earth and were trying to restart the population themselves. I don't think they were meant to be seen as evil for it.

[–] callouscomic@lemmy.zip 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (2 children)

Thanks for reminding me of one of so many reasons I abandoned the family from my childhood and all their toxic abusive apologists in our schools and churches.

Incredible you're in here defending throwing your own children to mob rape.

I will tell you from experience that in religious schools and churches they LOVE to obsess over the tiny line of Lots wife looking back and turning to salt, while pretending the other shit didn't happen or avoiding the topic, or giving it a simple "he was weak or scared" or making it some kind of non-literal thing when convenient (and then other times angrily demanding the Bible is literal).

Allegory or not, Lot is a piece of shit, and it's unsurprising that a man who would offer his daughters to a mob for rape would also raise them to think sleeping with him is okay. Its reflective of his character; the way they think.

Also, he knew what they did and let it happen. If he was THAT passed out drunk to not remember or know, he was not erect. He fucking knew and let it happen.

Let's pretend this is merely a story to teach a lesson. Wow. That's the best they got? This is the kind of guy that is worth saving from the town before destruction? This is what these religions held up at the time as the primo example of someone to save and keep alive? They have no better way to teach lessons about fearing God, much less morality.

Fucking pathetic for anyone to even attempt the apologetics on this.

[–] Machinist@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

You're nine kinds of warped around the axle about this and being pretty nasty to someone who seems to be chill.

Also, as an agnostic atheist raised in some ugly fundamentalism: you're applying modern views that are out of context to the period. Women and children were basically property. A similar modern view would be towards livestock.

[–] callouscomic@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

That doesn't make it okay. This God was just okay with that? Hahaha. Fuck that.

I was also raised in that shit. Of course I'm fucking warped by it.

This shit is fucked up and ANY defense of these scriptures is automatic red flag for hateful bigotry.

[–] Machinist@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

You're trying to chew on the wrong people. No one here is defending anything. Context is being provided.

Organized religion is mostly a poison, especially the fundamentalist version. Also, I get the rage. That shit ate my family.

That being said, I think it's important to be as accurate as possible in our criticism. Lot's daughters were offered for gang rape as his visitors were male aspect angels. Warped perspective given modern views. It's about the duty to visitors and the evil of Sodom. I don't know the historicity of Sodom and Gomorrah, but the story is almost certainly mostly fictional.

What's really fucked up is trying to apply Bronze Age morality to the current age and cramming it down children's throats.

You're so angry about this shit, but, maybe you should make sure you're directing that anger at appropriate targets.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

In not sure how you see that as a defense. I think you might be projecting your own issues on others.

[–] callouscomic@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Well no fucking shit. My own issues are called "the fucking Christian abusers who used this shit against me and anyone else to stave off any responsibility for anything."

If it hadn't affected me negatively I'd probably not give a shit what some people's scripts say.