this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2025
128 points (100.0% liked)

news

24187 readers
720 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today/ . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Image is from this article, of a Chilean copper quarry.

Title is a reference to Trump's social media post about copper, which was, as usual, mostly deranged.


Trying to follow Trump's administration is pretty difficult, but as of right now, he is threatening 30% tariffs on Mexico and the EU starting on August 1st, as well as new tariff announcements on a bunch of other countries (including, bizarrely, a 50% tariff on Brazil), and also apparently a 50% tariff on copper, which the US imports half its supply of and is, of course, a very important metal in many applications.

I'm not sure what the plan is to bring back domestic copper production beyond hoping that it just sorta works out, but prominent copper producers, such as Chile and Canada, seem both concerned and confused. Reuters had a line that made me chuckle:

Boric said he was awaiting official communication from the U.S. government, including whether the tariffs would include copper cathodes, and questioned "whether this will actually be implemented or not."

Big mood, Boric.


Last week's thread is here.
The Imperialism Reading Group is here.

Please check out the RedAtlas!

The bulletins site is here. Currently not used.
The RSS feed is here. Also currently not used.

Israel-Palestine Conflict

If you have evidence of Israeli crimes and atrocities that you wish to preserve, there is a thread here in which to do so.

Sources on the fighting in Palestine against Israel. In general, CW for footage of battles, explosions, dead people, and so on:

UNRWA reports on Israel's destruction and siege of Gaza and the West Bank.

English-language Palestinian Marxist-Leninist twitter account. Alt here.
English-language twitter account that collates news.
Arab-language twitter account with videos and images of fighting.
English-language (with some Arab retweets) Twitter account based in Lebanon. - Telegram is @IbnRiad.
English-language Palestinian Twitter account which reports on news from the Resistance Axis. - Telegram is @EyesOnSouth.
English-language Twitter account in the same group as the previous two. - Telegram here.

English-language PalestineResist telegram channel.
More telegram channels here for those interested.

Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Examples of Ukrainian Nazis and fascists
Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Sources:

Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map. Their youtube channel has substantially diminished in quality but the map is still useful.
Moon of Alabama, which tends to have interesting analysis. Avoid the comment section.
Understanding War and the Saker: reactionary sources that have occasional insights on the war.
Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.
Simplicius, who publishes on Substack. Like others, his political analysis should be soundly ignored, but his knowledge of weaponry and military strategy is generally quite good.
On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent and very good journalist reporting in the warzone on the separatists' side.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.

Pro-Russian Telegram Channels:

Again, CW for anti-LGBT and racist, sexist, etc speech, as well as combat footage.

https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad ~ A few different pro-Russian people gather frequent content for this channel (~100 posts per day), some socialist, but all socially reactionary. If you can only tolerate using one Russian telegram channel, I would recommend this one.
https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
https://t.me/rybar ~ One of, if not the, biggest Russian telegram channels focussing on the war out there. Actually quite balanced, maybe even pessimistic about Russia. Produces interesting and useful maps.
https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense. Does daily, if rather bland updates on the number of Ukrainians killed, etc. The figures appear to be approximately accurate; if you want, reduce all numbers by 25% as a 'propaganda tax', if you don't believe them. Does not cover everything, for obvious reasons, and virtually never details Russian losses.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

Almost every Western media outlet.
https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.


you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] cinnaa42@hexbear.net 41 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (7 children)

I always thought the whole "Russia is baiting Ukraine into a war of attrition what a smart strategy" thing was dumb, because who wants to get into a war of attrition? Especially when you're trying to make the land you're taking a part of your country, you're going to have to rebuild all of that depopulated land. I don't think they could have avoided it but it's not a good thing to spend years and thousands of lives grinding through fortifications, even if you're the Russian army and you have to go through a mandatory set of purges for incompetence in the first 2 years of any given war.

also who remembers the T-14 Armata? that was fun

[–] ColombianLenin@hexbear.net 49 points 6 days ago

Well, the war is about an existential threat to Russia, so they will do the fighting whatever it takes.

It just seems that they have taken the best strategic route that has allowed them to minimize casualties while methodically disarming NATO as a whole and while also avoiding excessively fast escalation, which is a major consideration in this nuclear armed world, see Iran-Israel.

I think that it is thanks to the experience of the SMO that Iran decided to go the way of attrition in its own war against the Zionist entity. It has proven effective to today's war doctrine of the West.

[–] Tervell@hexbear.net 26 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

because who wants to get into a war of attrition

Someone who wants to actually defeat their opponent for good.

What did American shock-and-awe campaigns actually accomplish? A decade-long counter-insurgency quagmire, and the Americans eventually just picking their bags up and fucking off? Conversely, why did post-WW2 Germany not see any notable insurgency, despite being a state with one of the most radicalized populations in history, complete with dedicated genocide squads and indoctrinated child soldiers? Because they were defeated not in a lightning-fast campaign, but in a brutal years-long war of attrition, which, in the end, left the majority of German men either dead, crippled, or captured - there was no-one left to fight (until a nascent NATO released a whole lot of those prisoners, so they could again be used against the Soviets).

A timeline where the initial Russian offensive works and Ukraine surrenders is a timeline where Russia gets its own Iraq, except it's not halfway across the world - it's on their doorstep. It's a timeline where Azov ghouls, not having been slaughtered in a long war, are driving vans into crowds in the Donbass and setting off car bombs, where schools are being shot up, where there's a dozen Crocus City Hall attacks, where there's a constant trickle of covert Western support (that, unlike the current shipments of tanks and planes and missiles, cannot be found and destroyed on the battlefield).

How often, in history, has an opponent actually been truly defeated, not set back for a couple of years, but thoroughly removed as a strategic threat, by a quick military campaign?

There's this bit from a Big Serge article which stuck with me

Much is always made of Russia’s propensity for “suffering”, with interpretations ranging from a romantic Russian-patriotic notion of sacrifice for the motherland to an anti-Russian criticism of the Russian tolerance for casualties. Perhaps it means both: the individual Russian soldier is more willing to sit in a freezing trench and trade shells than his adversary, and the Russian state and people are able to lose more and last longer in the aggregate.

I rather think, however, that Jünger’s metaphysical “titan of suffering” is not so metaphysical at all. It rather refers to a mundane power of the Russian state, namely its excellence and willingness across the centuries to mobilize huge numbers of men and material for war, at the expense of other social goals. War with Russia sucks. It means mass casualties, cold trenches, scarred earth, and long nights of shelling. The Ukrainians have coped with this as well as anyone (because they are themselves quasi-Russian, however much they deny it), but it is an awful thing to trade shells for years on end. The Russian power of suffering is to willingly fight wars that devolve into bat fights, knowing they have a bigger bat.


also who remembers the T-14 Armata? that was fun

Russia ditching a wunderwaffe and re-focusing on producing well-proven and reliable equipment is, if anything, a testament to them being smart, and adapting well to the conditions of the war. It's the "Germany should have just ditched the Tigers and made more Panzer IVs" hypothetical playing out in real time (although admittedly, Nazi Germany's case is a bit more nuanced, since even if they had made larger numbers of cheaper tanks, they wouldn't have actually had the manpower of fuel to use them - so making a smaller of amount of more capable vehicles was perhaps the right choice for them, or at least it would have been if said vehicles actually were capable and didn't tend to break down before even getting to the battlefield).

Conversely, Western militaries are just sticking their fingers in their ears about this whole war - they mocked "cope" cages for a couple years, until they started installing them themselves. They're still doing the "drones aren't a problem, we'll just knock them out of the sky with jamming/lasers/magic" cope, years on. They just whipped out a microwave cannon (which, well, hope you're one of the maybe 10 units that gets one of these, sucks to be all the other guys who have nothing and still get blown up since something like this would be exorbitantly expensive to field and deploy), and the batshit new Army manual about, uh... waving your hands frantically and shooting drones with tanks?! They're far behind on integration of drone teams, despite the fact that the Ukrainians are literally sitting right there doing it.

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 32 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

I don't think the primary plan was to go for a war of attrition. In my opinion the primary plan was to quickly enter Ukraine, encircle their capital city, and then Ukraine capitulates and signs the ceasefire/surrender document. The supply lines to Kyiv/Kiev, Kherson city, etc, were in no ways sustainable. Russia did not expect Ukraine to fight back (and a lot of this initial fight back from Ukraine was with minimal western military support), and that's where the initial invasion plan did not work. Russia is in a war of attrition now because that's the option available to them that has the greatest chance of succeeding, where Russia has the greatest advantages over Ukraine in manpower, stocks of equipment, self sufficient industry, etc.

The T-14 Armata tank fell into a lot of the traps military designs do, which is that it was designed to fight the "previous war". It took the lessons learnt from the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan/Global War on Terror, and applied them. Unfortunately, those lessons are irrelevant on the battlefield in Ukraine. There were also several serious problems with it, from the engine design to the planned optics. I think that Russia should scrap the project, which they've probably already done. Tanks need a rethink given what we've seen in Ukraine.

[–] CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

It's been a while since I last posted this, but it's an excellent read on Russia's opening strategy from the Marine Corps Gazette's Maneuverist Papers

In short, at the start of the war, Russia was conducting three qualitatively different campaigns at the same time: the rush to Kiev in the north, avoiding urban areas to reach and encircle the capital as fast as possible- both for the chance of extracting a treaty in one blow, and also to pin all the troops in the region with the threat of attacking Kiev itself; actual territorial capture in the south, with city fighting in Melitopol, Mariupol and smaller towns in the vicinity, and the swift replacement of their civil structures by Russian-organized ones; and the roll-out and setup of artillery positions and logistics in the east, to prepare for a war of attrition against Kiev's entrenched positions there.

The article even argues that pinning the troops in Kiev so they couldn't immediately reinforce the army on the field in the east was the more important of the strategic goals of the northward push, because by the time those troops were free and able to move eastwards, Russian artillery was firmly entrenched and the Ukrainian logistics network had been severely disrupted. They took a gamble at ending the war immediately, while also engaging in the rest of Ukraine on the assumption that gamble would fail, and using the movement entailed by that gamble to improve their chance of success in the other theaters. And in fact, as already mentioned, the gamble succeeded! The west had to step in and cancel the peace treaty themselves.

Edit: And compare this with western military understanding, which seems to be "Bomb everything -> take the capital -> ??? -> win". Being able to construct campaigns like this is clearly a legacy of Soviet military doctrine and understanding.

[–] Tervell@hexbear.net 8 points 6 days ago

They took a gamble at ending the war immediately, while also engaging in the rest of Ukraine on the assumption that gamble would fail

Yes, this is the part that people keep missing. I really don't get it, why is the idea of "gamble that's not an all-in move, but actually involves a backup plan" apparently so difficult to grasp?

And this indeed reflects Soviet planning. A lot of people look at stuff like the 7 Days to the Rhine plans and assume that Soviet Cold War planning was all about blitzkrieg-style moves, which is an assumption that just falls apart upon the slightest further examination, given that everything else about the Soviets - the way they designed their equipment, the production rates, the massive stockpiles (so large that 30 years after the collapse of the Union, these old stockpiles made up a substantial portion of the equipment used in Ukraine), the massive bomb-resistant underground industrial complexes, the designing of civilian industry that could quickly convert to military production, etc. - indicates preparation for long attritional wars, not quick campaigns. Those WW3 plans are exactly such a style of move - a gamble to knock out the enemy quick, with the preparation for that gamble to not work and the conflict to shift into a conventional attritional phase (unlike the Nazi WW2 plans of "a gamble to knock out the enemy quick, and if that doesn't work... well, no need to worry, it is going to work!")

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 15 points 6 days ago (4 children)

. Russia did not expect Ukraine to fight back (and a lot of this initial fight back from Ukraine was with minimal western military support), and that's where the initial invasion plan did not work.

weird how they didn't learn anything from the previous 50 years of wars

[–] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 37 points 6 days ago

I mean, the Russian plan worked. Ukraine signed the capitulation documents in Istanbul.

Then the west directly intervened and made them back out, promised support and killed the negotiators.

[–] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

They did. They just learned the wrong things.

Their first assumption was that Ukraine wouldn't fight back because most Russian (and Eastern Ukrianian) civilians consider them to 'brother-peoples'. In that way, they were legitimately able to take Crimea not only without a fight, but also without really any amount of internal resistance. Due to the general corruption of the Ukrianian government, they figured it would basically be the same deal, with them coming in as 'saviors'. In addition to this, they definitely believed the story of Desert Storm "Large mobile convoy with air support is able rush forward quickly to obliterate Iraq's army." without taking into account the two things that actually made it successful (which of course worked in Iraq but not Afghanistan due to the country being far less centralized, this also worked on Libya and Syria and to some extent Iran) which was, sanctions to impoverish the society and wide scale bribery to military officers with promises of clemency in the new administration to abandon their posts.

Russia did not perform sanctions on Ukraine even as they were in the middle of a low scale ethnic civil war, and this were not able to bribe a sufficient number of Ukrianian officers. It especially was not effective as cutouts in the U.S. have been bribing the Ukrianian government and military with funding and weapons for years, with promises of continued support if they sustained their aggressive ethnic policies towards ethnic Russian Ukrainians, and support if conflict ensued (even though no one in the Ukrainian government actually thought they were going to launch an assault on the country). Therefore, it was not, and could not be effective, and Russia fundamentally misunderstood the nature of their relationship with Ukraine.

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

"Large mobile convoy with air support is able rush forward quickly to obliterate Iraq's army." without taking into account the two things that actually made it successful.

Also, the US Air Force and Navy invested a ton of money, assets and resources into how to suppress and destroy air defences after taking enormous losses in Vietnam, even building hundreds of specialised aircraft designed just for that mission. The US also invested heavily into stealth aircraft and precision guided munitions. The Soviet Union, and by extension Russia didn't do this (because it was never essential to their military doctrine and it's extremely expensive), which is why over three years into the Ukraine war and despite decimating the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft at the start of the conflict, Russian aircraft rarely cross the line of contact into Ukrainian controlled skies/territory.

[–] cinnaa42@hexbear.net 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

"we'll be greeted as liberators" doesnt ever work and especially not when you're fighting the side with the most advanced propaganda apparatus in history

[–] WrongOnTheInternet@hexbear.net 3 points 6 days ago (2 children)

It worked in Crimea less than a decade prior

[–] cinnaa42@hexbear.net 3 points 6 days ago

Crimea is majority Russian and belonged to the RSFR within living memory of a lot of people, though.

[–] Euergetes@hexbear.net 2 points 6 days ago

that was a very tight and overwhelming operation where the only opposition was next-door to the russian garrison. opposition was completely futile even if you believe the crimeans weren't on board

It was also reported that the US offered evacuation for certain Ukrainians to form a government in exile, which suggests the US also had the view that it would occur

[–] Tervell@hexbear.net 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

It took the lessons learnt from the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan/Global War on Terror, and applied them

I'm not sure this is really what the Armata was doing - in a lot of ways, it was a continuation of existing Russian (inherited from the Soviets) design philosophy.

There's two aspects to the Armata program - the tank itself, and the Armata Universal Combat Platform, which is meant to be a common chassis for many different systems - tanks, artillery, APCs, IFVs, etc.. The later is an obviously appealing idea and has already been practiced in a more limited sense for a long time by both the Soviets and the West (like using existing tank or APC chassis for recovery or engineering vehicles, or self-propelled artillery). There is however an ambition to extend it further (an American example is the Future Combat Systems program), but it keeps running into the same problem - that APCs/IFVs have fundamentally different needs for their chassis than tanks, so actually uniting them would mean you either get a tank that's too lightly armed-and-armored, or APCs that are way too heavy and expensive. In the Armata's case, the T-15 IFV seems to have been even less successful, the T-14 at least did do some actual combat trials in Ukraine and was eventually withdrawn, but I'm not sure if the T-15 has been seen anywhere outside of parades. So for now at least you're kind of stuck needing at least two main tracked chassis designs (or three, if your APCs and IFVs are separate, but some countries have recently shifted to a unified chassis at least for those two classes of vehicle, like the AMPV being essentially a turretless Bradley, or the still-ongoing (and rather troubled) British Ajax program which includes both an APC and an IFV variant).

For the tank itself - I'm not sure it really is that based on GWOT experiences, beyond the inclusion of active protection (which I feel like isn't informed so much by the GWOT but by Russia's own experiences with urban counter-insurgency in Chechnya, which naturally leads to trying out ways to protect oneself from a guy with an ATGM hiding out somewhere managing to take you out; these experiences also led to the BMPT Terminator and its concept of a "tank support" vehicle, something on a tank chassis but armed more-so to fight infantry, with good optics so it can spot and quickly respond to such threats much better than a tank can), but there's nothing about the APS concept that requires the development of a whole new vehicle (and most APS systems are indeed designed as add-on upgrades), aside from perhaps a new hull/turret being able to accommodate some of the sensors better than trying to kludge them onto an existing one.

I think part of the narrative around it has been that it's more "Western" in design, but it really isn't, beyond just being expensive (and contrary to the pop-history view, the Soviets were perfectly willing to spend more on fancier equipment in certain contexts that merited it, like aircraft or nuclear submarines, and even in ground forces - the widespread fielding of autoloaders is obviously quite a technological advancement, and while Soviet tanks are generally viewed as simpler compared to Western ones, the post-T-64 designs are quite a bit more complex compared to previous Soviet designs). This perception seems to come from the propagandistic narrative of those evil Soviets who just didn't care about crew survivability, and since the Armata makes improvements on that front, it represents the Russians shifting away from the Soviet philosophy to a Western one.


But the actual main part of the Armata (and seemingly where a lot of the issues stem from) is the idea of fully-remote turret, with the crew moved to a special armored capsule in the front - and this development comes from a Soviet program that started in '88, so it definitely precedes the GWOT era. This is where that "Western design" assumption comes in again - people assume the purpose of the capsule is purely crew protection, and thus it indicates the Russians moving from the (supposed) Soviet "eh, just let 'em blow up" philosophy to the Western "every tanker is sacred" one. But if we consider this in continuity with the history of Soviet tank design, it actually seems like the natural next step in their philosophy of minimizing the volume of the crew compartment, thus minimizing the surface area that has to be protected by thicker armor, allowing you to cut weight (and cost, since you're just spending less on materials). This philosophy informed the proliferation of the autoloader, and it's that design choice which allows Soviet tanks to be so much lighter compared to Western ones - by eliminating the loader (who's the crew member needing the most space to work in, due to the wider movements required for his role), you can substantially reduce the crew compartment, which in turns allows you to make a much smaller turret, one which will be lighter by simple geometry - there's just less of it that you need to cover with armor. For example, one of the only Western MBTs to also use an autoloader - the French Leclerc - is indeed a decent bit lighter compared to the Abrams and Leopard 2 (although still heavier than the T-90), and pretty comparable to the Chinese ZTZ-99A.

So where do you go from there? Well, what if you could remove the crew from the turret altogether, and stick them in the front of the hull somehow? That way, you'd have an armored "capsule" containing just the crew, which is where most of the armor would be focused, allowing the rest of the tank to be made much lighter. That's how the Armata can be so much bigger than the T-90 while being of comparable weight - the actually heavily-armored part of the Armata is much smaller.

But the obvious problem with this is - how does the crew actually command the turret from their little capsule? Well, you need a whole bunch of sophisticated electronics and optics to make that viable - and that makes the vehicle more complex, expensive, and fragile. The tech just isn't there yet.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm with you on this. The initial operation fucked up spectacularly and they lost a lot of very good soldiers, particularly in the Hostomel Airport operation.

[–] cinnaa42@hexbear.net 11 points 6 days ago

Hostomel was fucking crazy. Really lame thing to say but the first few days of that war literally felt like watching clips from some Battlefield game.

[–] companero@hexbear.net 27 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The initial invasion went pretty well, all things considered. I'd say it was a military success. I think it was more of a political/intelligence failure that they didn't account for the US forcing Ukraine to continue the war at any cost.

After that fizzled out, they didn't really have a choice but a war of attrition.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Hostomel airport was a catastrophic failure.

[–] companero@hexbear.net 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

If you have reasonably credible sources, I'd be interested to look at them. I'm aware of the Western propaganda, but I haven't seen much solid evidence.

To my knowledge, Russia held the airport until they realized that Ukraine wasn't going to capitulate and then they withdrew from the entire Kiev front.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Digging it all up would be a huge amount of work now and I do not have the energy (also it's not really important anymore I think?) but my biggest memory of the time was like 6 months after when Russian nationalists were going apeshit about it. They were very angry about what a failure it was and the number of deaths.

[–] companero@hexbear.net 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I'm sure there were many casualties, but that's kind of the nature of war between two near peer countries. Especially such a blitz offensive like Russia did.

Nobody serious disputes that Russia burned through a large portion of their assault troops in the initial invasion.

The smart thing was switching to an attrition strategy first. If this was always going to be a war of attrition, then Russia was the only one using appropriate tactics for a few years after the first push failed.

This ended up catapulting them ahead in the war of attrition - which they viewed as inevitable.

[–] TraschcanOfIdeology@hexbear.net 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Especially when you're trying to make the land you're taking a part of your country, you're going to have to rebuild all of that depopulated land.

If your interest is building a buffer zone between nato states and your most vulnerable border, leaving what once was the most fertile land in Europe a place that can sustain very little if no life is not a mistake, it's a goal. I am very suspicious of Russia's intentions towards the eastern Ukrainian nations, and I don't think they're interested in investing in them for anything other than military outposts. It's not that the nazi Ukrainian state was any better, but seeing how the current RF treats other peripheral nations within its territory, I'm under no illusion that the change in management will lead to stability or thriving in those regions.

[–] Euergetes@hexbear.net 5 points 6 days ago

the invasion should've been launched in 2014 or 15, they could've actually done the in-and-out regime change if Ukraine hadn't had years to sharpen their teeth on the limited Russian forces in the separatist oblasts