this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2025
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The Jewish People Policy Institute Israel Index survey found that 8 out of 10 Jewish Israelis agreed with Trump's proposal of expelling Palestinians from Gaza.

Forty-three percent of all Israelis said that the expulsion plan was "practical" and should be implemented, while 30 percent said the plan was "desirable" but not practical.

A minority of 13 percent - made of up 54 percent of Palestinian respondents and just three percent of Jewish Israelis - described the Trump plan as "immoral".

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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Religion is excellent cover for it, though.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No? Religion can both support and oppose fascism, but looking at Hitler and Mussolini and thinking "religion did this" is frankly ahistorical and is nothing but a way for atheists to feel better about themselves.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You've reversed the order, and that doesn't work.

"Religion enables violence" is not the same as "All violence is caused by religion."

But since you're brought up Hitler.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"Religion enables violence" is not the same as "All violence is caused by religion."

Yes, and I'm saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler's inherently race-based ideology. Hell, the Nazis defined Jews via their ancestry, not their religious observance. What did religion have to do with the Generalplan Ost or the Aryan race?

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Aryan race stuff, as exemplified in 19th and 20th century racial superiority, actually starts with lingustics.

Yes, and I'm saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler's inherently race-based ideology.

Okay? You're the only one talking about that, and nobody is disagreeing with you. Although I might add that Hitler and his ilk were kind of famously into the occult. Perhaps not a religion, but certainly religious.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Let me rephrase: Yes, and I'm saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler's inherently race-based ideology, even as a cover. Nazis were religious to the extent that everyone at the time was religious, but religion was just another thing they pandered to and didn't have a big role to play in their activities except insofar as all non-Nazi ideologies—religious or not—were targets of extermination.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes, and I'm saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler's inherently race-based ideology, even as a cover.

Religion still does enable violence. Just because you're citing a specific example where it arguably did not does not falsify that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement#Militancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

And let's not forget the Aztecs, whose religion had them subjugating their nearby enemies, capturing their people, and sacrificing them to satisfy their deities. The Aztecs were so horrible that when the Europeans showed up and kind of rolled over them, those previously subjugated city-states went fucking ham on the Aztecs, completely destroying them. And the Europeans were all "Dude, that's harsh."

There are certainly also plenty of non-religious cases of violence throughout history, of course, for good and bad reasons. "Because a deity 'said so'" is never a good reason.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Religion still does enable violence. Just because you're citing a specific example where it arguably did not does not falsify that.

I thought I made it pretty clear I talking specifically about fascism and its offshoots like Zionism, Nazism and MAGA.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Zionism is complicated, because "Jewish" can be a religion, nationality, culture, or ethnicity/race, or any combination of the above, depending on who is using the term and in what context.

MAGA is absolutely strongly correlated with evangelical Christianity in the US.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 2 days ago

Zionism is complicated, because "Jewish" can be a religion, nationality, culture, or ethnicity/race, or any combination of the above, depending on who is using the term and in what context.

"Jewish" can be any of those things, but Zionism pretty explicitly treats Jews as an ethnicity/nationality. This is why even liberal/atheist Jews are considered Jews by Zionists.

MAGA is absolutely strongly correlated with evangelical Christianity in the US.

Yes, but did that materially contribute to their fascist rhetoric or actions? From what I know their rhetoric is mostly race and nationality-based, which is why they're going after immigrants and non-whites rather than atheists and other sects of Christianity. In fact while MAGA is correlated with evangelical Christianity it doesn't exactly reject atheists, with 27% of voters not affiliated with any religious group being Republican..