this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2025
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chapotraphouse
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I have a confession.
I actually agree with a fundamental principle behind rationalist/basilisk discourse: a simulation of you, if it's accurate enough, is essentially you. If Roko's Basilisk created a simulation of me then she is me, and if it tortured her it's indistinguishable from me being tortured. She'll be "me" in every way that matters. Continuity of consciousness is unimportant.
It's just that Roko's Basilisk is based on flawed priors so I'm not really worried about Skynet torturing my Metaverse avatar in the future. The basilisk wouldn't bother, there's literally no point. It wouldn't care about me at all. That's a waste of resources.
Instead, I'm hopeful!
I believe, if we don't kill ourselves, we will be able to simulate the dead and bring everyone back. There isn't going to be some dumbass Judgement Day where a basilisk determines if we were good, there's no point, but instead every person who has ever lived will be simulated and no one will ever have to say goodbye ever again. Some people will need some rehabilitation to get over their traumas from life, some people will need reeducation to get over their own bullshit, but everyone will be saved.
Rationalist psychos can't imagine this because the idea of saving everyone is antithetical to their world-view. They're still operating on essentially capitalist priors where only the righteous/productive will be saved while the wicked/unproductive will be damned. It's the same logic behind making the poor starve so they work harder for food, except their imaginations have run wild with it.
And they will build the basilisk themselves if we let them.
What would these recreations of dead people, most of them long since departed, be based on? How would this differ from those ghoulish AI services that offer to train a chatbot on a deceased loved one's chat history
There's a few assumptions at play here.
We have to assume that it is possible to create a simulation that is advanced enough to actually be intelligent (we aren't anywhere close and these chatbots are just investor scams). In this assumption the simulation is not just a chatbot, it is at the very least a person.
And then we have to assume that it's possible to actually accurately simulate history; you could simulate the exact events of JFK's assassination and actually get a picture of Poppy pulling the trigger, as it really happened in real life.
These are assumptions, of course. Maybe artificially constructed minds can't ever be intelligent, maybe simulating history to that level of accuracy isn't possible, but if they both are possible I think you could simulate the dead and bring them back to life.
I'm pretty confident it's not. If a book burns to ash, you can't piece it back together.
There's a theory in quantum mechanics that information can never be destroyed, it merely changes forms. No human could put a burned book back together with their bare hands, obviously, but all the pieces are still there. Nothing was actually lost. It's just in a different form, and perhaps with the right techniques it can be put back together again.
In fact, scientists are successfully managing to read burned scrolls that were destroyed in the Pompeii eruption right now.
Information in the quantum physics context is not the same as information in the normal context. Things can be irretrievably forgotten or destroyed. For example, if you approach a stainless steel block sitting on a concrete pad in an isolated environment, how would you determine how long it's been there? There's no way to tell from simply observing that system. Or for a very different example, the cultural and linguistic practices of many Native American nations are entirely lost to history - much simply cannot refer be determined through the limited means available to us
Certainly, but we're talking about Sufficiently Advanced technology. Might there, someday, be means available to us that would allow us to do this? It's speculative for sure, but I wouldn't be confident ruling it out.
Wouldn't (maybe the right word is "shouldn't") there be a difference between information and meaning?
You can reconstruct a book but will it mean the same thing after reconstruction?
I have no idea what you mean.
The meaning comes from the words, not the book the words are written on. If a different book has the same words in the same order it sure seems like it would mean the same thing imo
(just thoughts from watching AI widgets try to make pictures)
If I took a book that had 1 millions characters in its text and overlapped each character on the same spot on the same page, but otherwise made no other changes, all the "parts" of the book are there but its meaning has changed.
Kinda like trying to read something in a dream. I'll open a book, look at the page, and see gibberish but "know" that the text is supposed to be saying something specific. If I was able to write down the gibberish and give it to somebody else to read, they wouldn't get the same meaning out of it.
Sure, you also have to have the same words in the same order in the same font in the same color in the same pattern on the page. That's what I meant though, the meaning does not come from the literal paper the book is made of - even an ebook has the same meaning as a paperback. Not everyone likes ebooks, of course, so for them they get a reprint of the old book.
And I do not think a "reprinted" person, made of meat with all the same stuff in their brain, is any different than the original. At the very least, my clone and I will certainly agree about this. I wouldn't make the decision for anyone else, but for my collective selves we will happily be replaced.
This attachment to the original body is sentimental imo. That doesn't make it meaningless, but if it's a choice between being a clone or being nothing? I'll take a clone body please.