SixSidedUrsine

No, supporting the attacked people in their defence until they decide otherways.

Then you should support the people of the Donbas who have been fighting for their lives since Ukraine started trying to ethnically cleanse them back in 2014.

Russia wants nothing of the sort. If you're not some sad troll but actually believe Russia has "fantasies of removing Ukrainian culture" etc, you are so deluded it's disgusting. It was Ukraine that has been attempting to ethnically cleanse people of Russian heritage that is mostly what kicked this whole conflict off. Russia has been making sure civilians have a corridor to safety while the Ukrainians have been openly talking about purging the population of Crimea if it were able to take it from Russia (which they can't, not even in their wildest "fantasies.")

Russia has wanted to negotiate reasonable peace terms since the beginning of the war, but it has been repeatedly scuttled by NATO/Ukraine, most famously when Boris Johnson intervened to make sure peace did not happen.

All of that is the reality of the situation, but the propagandists and those who ate up all their lies like to project the crimes and failures of their own masters onto their enemy, and we end up with the mirror world that this sorry know-nothing fool believes in.

I don't know, I think by the end of that first line it was clear that something was seriously awry. One of those three divisions is not like the others.

Thank you for doing most of the heavy lifting trying to get through to them despite all that ableism and the obvious attempts to rattle you. It started to work on me, I was taking the last reply pretty personally at first (as was intended) before I saw it for what it was. It's too bad. At the very top of the thread I thought they might have been a decent comrade.

So what big boy books do you like to read, then? Give us your top recommendations.

but it's like you keep trying to deny it, but also you can't deny it so you just shift the argument.

Notice the repeated hijacking of leftist rhetoric and terms in all that obvious goal post shifting and obnoxious debatebro shit. Like trying to tie your plain facts explanation to you somehow having an imperialist, capitalist, mindset. Then telling me I treat my cat "as a commodity" after I had gone on about how meaningful cats are to me. Almost as if they're just trying to push buttons.

This conversation isn't about discussing the issue in good faith, it's someone who clearly doesn't have anything to back up their position and can only do the classic lashing out in a pathetic attempt to provoke.

I don't treat my cat as a commodity at all and fuck you for implying I do. I give him the happiest most fulfilling life I can possibly afford, and it is good and happy. He is a joyful cat and I'm glad I was able to rescue him from the feral environment he was in as an "outdoor cat" where he was facing a harsh and short life before likely an early and painful death. [editing out some personal info here]. Don't fucking tell me about responsibility you smug cretin.

But you... what animals do you treat as commodities? You better be a vegan or any bullshit you're saying about others treating living, breathing creatures as a commodity you can fuck RIGHT off with your hypocrisy and moral superiority bullshit. (I am a vegan by the way because I'm not a hypocrite in my refusal to treat sentient life as a commodity).

Frankly, I find your use of leftist terminology to justify your selfish cruelty to not only your own pets but to the other life around them to be disgusting. If you can't or won't take responsibility for the harm you cause in the world for taking the lazy way of caring for a pet, for putting the sentient life that relies on you in danger, you are not fit to care for them at all.

I have a cat. I have always had cats in my life. I love cats. I consider myself a "cat person" (who also loves dogs). But you really are being obtuse here. Even in places where cats are not a threat to literally entire species (as they are in much of the world), they can cause massive, irreversible destruction to the local wildlife. That is a fact.

The argument that it's cruel to keep cats indoors doesn't resonate with me either. Outdoor cats are far more likely to be seriously injured or killed by any number of things that are found only outside. From diseases to predators to sadistic humans, with the big obvious factor being cars. But a well-cared for indoor cat is a safe cat. I'm not going to look it up right now, but it's something like the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is only 3-4 years whereas indoor cats it's like 16-18. In my experience (and I've known a lot of cats, both indoor and outdoor) most that are raised indoors are perfectly happy to remain that way so long as they are given the things they need. That includes exercise and mental, emotional, and social stimulation. If you provide for them, there aren't many things they desire that they can get outdoor that can't also be given to them indoors. It is much more cruel to have a cat that you let outside but mostly ignore except to feed them, than it is to have an indoor-only cat that you make time for every day to play with, give affection, or otherwise engage. There are also plenty of compromises if you're a human that's privileged enough to be able to provide them, like outdoor enclosures.

Finally, this thing about calling the "cats should be kept indoors" argument an American position is just crude and wrong. The American way is more along the lines of "lol, I'm going to do what I want because I feel like it, I don't give a shit about all the evidence that what I want is harmful to others." In other words, "I don't care about the local bird, rodent, reptile, and native predator populations, I'm going to do what I want with MY cat" seems to be a hell of a lot more of an Americanism than @Egon@hexbear.net explaining to you why outdoor cats are a detriment to wildlife all over the world. When it's also taken into account that it's typically islands that have suffered the worst consequences of cats as an invasive species, islands that are also victims of US imperialism, saying that cats should be kept indoors is an American moral imposition is straight up offensive. At best, it's adding insult to injury.

Though I will say, targeting infrastructure is part of war, not a warcrime.

It depends on the specifics of the infrastructure, really. Bombing rail lines carrying weapons to the front? Not a war crime. Blowing up a dam and deliberately drowning hundreds of thousands of civilians? War crime.

Either way, Russia has been extremely restrained in their destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure, especially in the first year of the war. It's downright shocking when you compare the infrastructure left intact compared to what was left intact after only the first few weeks of the US invasion of Iraq.