this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2023
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[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is essentially true even if they didn't explicitly spell out political struggle that women would have to engage in. Actually existing feudalism hasn't existed anywhere for decades. All that shit about Afghani tribes living in a premodern society is just racism. Afghanistan, like most of the world, has a capitalist economy even if you want to nitpick that the superstructure still has feudal remnants. I mean, the UK still has feudal remnants in its superstructure through their inbred German royals, but no one calls the UK some quaint society that hasn't fully embraced modernity.

And in a capitalist economy, it shouldn't be controversial to say that the prerequisite for workers obtaining political power is for them to join the formal economy, where they can then withhold their labor as workers through worker strikes. Stuff like elevating the lumpenproletariat as the key revolutionary subject makes more sense if we're talking about internal colonies/fourth world where the internally colonized are forcefully denied employment within the formal economy or a (neo)colonial situation where most workers of the formal economy are clerical workers working with the (neo)colonial government in sucking the country dry, but this obviously isn't the case for Afghanistan. Worker strikes imply workers who are part of the formal economy. It's one more tool Afghani women can use to fight for women's rights and dismantle the patriarchy. I'm not sure what's wrong with this or how this is "un-Marxist."

[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago

no one calls the UK some quaint society that hasn't fully embraced modernity.

I-was-saying

[–] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

SMH at the anti-dengism ITT.

[–] makotech222@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

Amazing emoji potential

[–] Raebxeh@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

Muzzling demons to ride them into heaven

[–] CrushKillDestroySwag@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean it's a better plan than invading the country, killing a million people and putting a bunch of pedophiles in charge, that's for certain.

[–] Biggay@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Are you sure? Just because it didnt work the last 20 times doesnt mean we couldnt try again to see if it works

[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

99% of ~~gamblers~~ imperialists quit right before they win big.

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[–] jabrd@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Marxist-Leninists performing bourgeois revolutions better than any bourgeois party ever could

[–] SovietWaveGoddess@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Correction: Marxist Leninists performing the only revolutions better than anyone else could

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[–] DengistDonnieDarko@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

deng-cowboy "howdy, what's going on in this thread?"

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

when youre turnt up on dialectical materialism

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[–] M68040@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

"Come with plows, tractors, and fertilizer..."

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (11 children)

I don't consider it a coincidence in the slightest that women's liberation kicked into high gear with women's employment and education opportunities. Anything else strikes me as cart before the horse.

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Education, social/economic independence, and industrial labor demands definitely produced the conditions for a feminist movement.

But mass media, mass surveillance, and the industrialization of policing also inhibited and restrained women's movements.

So...

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[–] Hestia@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I much prefer the western strategy where we bomb the shit out of them until they realize how superior our western values^tm^ are.

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Women's computer camp in the wealthiest corner of the capital.

Western armed warlords across the rural bulk of the nation.

Wagging my finger at the Taliban for hating women because my warlords are losing.

[–] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

For a sec I thought you were just talking about the US with the first two lines lol.

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[–] SerLava@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

MY favorite western strategy to instill Western Values™ is to intentionally seek out the most right-wing weirdos in the country, go out of our way to convince them that women's rights is a Communist plot to lead them to Satan, and supply them with stinger missiles

[–] oregoncom@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Actually no, China needs to wage holy war on the Taliban and force them all the adopt the version of Islam that Hui people have. Then they'll have female imams and from there powerful female imams will lead the revolutionary vanguard for women's rights.

[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (5 children)

women were involved in the industrial workforce in the west from the beginning, and three waves of feminism were still needed - the work not even over after that. So I don't really know if i agree with this take.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

Did a single women's liberatory movement succeed before development of the industrial capacity and the incentive capital provides to the national bourgeoisie to see things change?

We must prioritise the prerequisites. Certain material conditions are a necessity to meet before those movements can see success.

EDIT: The phrasing is a bit racist in this part of the manifesto but still relevant:

The rapid improvement of all instruments of production, by the immensely facilitated means of communication, draws all, even the most barbarian, nations into civilisation.

[–] SovietWaveGoddess@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

even the most barbarian, nations into civilisation.

counterpoint: its not racist if you call the imperialist nations the barbaric ones

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[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Did a single women's liberatory movement succeed before development of the industrial capacity and the incentive capital provides to the national bourgeoisie to see things change?

I finished Graeber's "History of Everything" not too long ago, and want to say this gets touched on, and the answer is 'yes.'

That said, I gave my copy to my dad and would need to go page through it to cite that, so I very well may be wrong. Plus, it would have been centuries ago anyways, so not sure it's really relevant to your initial question.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Second this. The situation of Women in the 19th century is very deeply tied to the whole "global European empire of terror" and doesn't necessarily reflect conditions in other cultures at other times.

[–] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 years ago

There seems to be a lot of active socialists in my part of the country and historic support for women's and queer rights, I wonder if it has to do with knowledge of indigenous cultures from my region? Several tribes active here had a matriarchal governance structure, they would have rotating councils of women meet to discuss issues and distribution of resources in what could be described as a socialist system. Nearly all political knowledge in the west is rooted in white imperialist ideologies, my heart aches thinking where we could be today if egalitarian or socialist tribes were allowed to flourish.

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[–] grandepequeno@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

He put it very vulgarly but that's more or less a point I've read from other marxists, that proletarianization MAY bring about mass politics

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (14 children)

I get the point. Now, all my aprons come from Pakistan, how are women's rights doing there? Or India? Or Bangladesh?

"Better than before women were employed in factories", OK fine. But this comment should be indistinguishable from r/neoliberal if that place weren't nazis in denial

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