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Logo uses joystick by liftarn
The analogy makes a lot of sense to me. Once you have an "easy button", it's hard to not use it. It's sort of like when you're at work and see the "quick workaround" effectively become the standard process.
I remember burning out on games because the cheats made them really fun in the short term, but afterward playing normally felt like agony.
I like AI because it will ruin next generations, so I will always have job as programmer who can use brain
Here's something I've been thinking about. I've been playing through some need for speed games on emulators for the past few years. Once I bound keys to save and load states it was over: I'd save-state before every turn and run them over and over until I got them perfect. Doing this I did eventually learn the maps really well though, and on more recent playthroughs I've barely used save-states, which was obviously far more satisfying. I realize this isn't the same thing as ai or walkthroughs, but I think maybe these tools do share something in that they lower the barrier to entry to different sorts of skilled tasks we may not yet feel competent to accomplish. Like training wheels or a helping hand, we can let go of them once we feel steadier on our own.
I like this analogy and it's a good way to think about this sort of AI help, but I guess the problem arises when people don't have the same awareness. If you don't realise it's more fun/satisfying, you might never take the training wheels off. I know it seems obvious to me or you but a lot wouldn't see that correlation.
I've been playing co-op games recently and half my group want to revert the save anytime anything goes south. I always refuse (I host) and we've had some really fun times digging ourselves out of the hole. Even the save scummers agree they were the most fun playthroughs, but then they still want to save scum next time.
here's this thing that has nothing to do with the topic we're discussing. I acknowledge it's not even remotely the same. But think, what if it was?
To be fair, I needed some serious help in RCT. The under the hood mechanics were NOT intuitive to me.
I replayed it recently and the hidden mechanics are just bad game design. Not docking the game but there's no way to tell the reasons for certain scenario failures, even when addressing all the customer thoughts and using all existing information.
I haven't played rtc in 20 yrs, but I remember completing every park task except for dinky Park. I got really close one time, but was just short when the time ran out. Just a few months ago I randomly came across a video on how to beat it, and now I want to play it again but can't find it.
It makes sense for me too, and i like your cheat code version of it. I think it's also akin to the tutorial hell for devs and artists.
It's sort of like when you're at work and see the "quick workaround" effectively become the standard process.
Nothing is more permanent than a temporary fix
I had a a guidebook for Desperados. I ended up using the "hide around corner, shoot, and then blast everyone coming around the corner"-tactic instead of the guidebook 80% of the time.
desperados and commandos were both just that kind of game. i revisited desperados recently and the amount of mileage you can get out of "lie down in tall grass, quicksave, stand up, shoot, lie down" is frankly ridiculous.
I grew up when solutions either were not available or cost money to get either by subscribing to a magazine, buying a magazine, or calling a 1800 hotline which cost ludicrous amounts of money for the time.
When gamefaqs and the like became popular it was great to get the answer instead of giving up. I couldn't imagine growing up always having the answer handed to you though.
The bits I used gamefaqs guides for (btw I love they are still there ^_^) are rarely fun anyway. Mostly, it's achievement grinding or 100%ing. If the game itself needs a guide to navigate it, I usually just drop it. If it fails at informing me about it's mechanics that much it's not for me.
Weird, I love problem solving. Its why im so upset with people complaining about computers when all they have to do is tinker with them or google about it. Walkthroughs are for when you need it, if you have an urge to use the walkthrough only instead of actually playing the game, then thats a you problem.
I mean, I guess, it was their realization that the walkthrough skips the fun problem-solving part. That it shouldn't be a tool you use during the problem-solving.
I've fallen into this exact trap when I played the HD remaster of Suikoden 1&2 a few months ago. The games still hold up pretty well but are a bit too dated to my taste to have more than a single playthrough, so I followed guides to get the perfect ending, which involves recruiting all 108 characters into your army.
At first I was just looking at a very light guide that told me which characters were missable and approximately when to get them. Then I got impatient and looked up their location and recruitment conditions. And then I ended up following a complete walkthrough step by step to make sure I wasn't making any mistake.
That completely took the fun out of the games and I burnt out halfway through the second one.
I wish there were more options for “hints” instead of just giving you the walkthrough. I keep getting stuck in Subnautica, but I don’t want to just make a beeline to where I need to be.
Cheating always made games boring for me. I remember doing a cheat in Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life to get all items, and it just evaporated any fun I had.
The best balance was a GameFAQs I printed out for Morrowind that just covered the first handful of quests of the game. Gave me tips for class and race selection, and just enough guidance to get my bearings.
Counterpoint, like, I can draw things, but I can't draw people, but I have used AI to generate pictures of people that I can then trace to learn how to draw people, and because it's a new person, and it's something I'm in control of, I feel more encouraged to fire up Krita and work on my drawing.
I still suck, don't get me wrong, but I have done more artwork since having access to AI art tools than I did for several years prior to that.
There's just something about having an idea of knowing what the finished output is supposed to look like that helps me figure out how to draw what I'm supposed to draw.
And eventually I will be fully drawing my own stuff from scratch, thanks to using AI as a self-learning tool.
I think that's more than a fair point. AI is a tool, and I'm personally (tentatively) optimistic about what it will be capable of helping us with.
I think the distinction to be made in this case is when the use of a tool undermines the desired experience without us realizing it.
Like "I want to enjoy playing this game." > (uses cheats for a little bit) > "Now I don't enjoy playing it normally anymore."
Or "I want to be able to think critically." > (consults AI for everything) > "Now I have a hard time reasoning on my own."
This argument says,"I use a tool as a tool." Which is valid, using a tool as crutch when you don't need one is wrong.
Like I sell AI art as a business.
I played with cheats almost all the time when I was a kid, but I was rarely doing it for difficulty reasons. I just got used to the idea early on of game engines just being digital sandboxes and loved seeing how far I could push things.
I don’t really understand using cheats as a difficulty bypass unless you’re there just to get the story/explore.
I use ChatGPT similarly. If I want to explore an idea without consequence, I can use it to brainstorm, but it’s not going to be how I lay out an entire project.
I decided to use GPT to help me with gaming, specifically when I had little to no clue what to do or where to go.
What I did was write instructions in my prompt, asking it not to be too specific and not to give me a straight answer. Sometimes, I even asked it to be intentionally cryptic. That way, I could still make progress without ruining the fun, since the vague hints still left room for me to figure things out on my own.
Basically you ignored out all the hints the game gave you, and asked Chat-GPT for it instead.
..., specifically when I had little to no clue what to do or where to go.
I think you missed that part of my comment.
Some games are just bad at it sometimes.
What is the point of a walkthrough for sandbox games op???
sometimes you just wanna know what to splice to finish your gardening collection instead of brute forcing every single combination of the 40+ plants that exist until you learn that grapes and oats grafted together make elderberries or something weird like that.
Min maxing.
Mods. Mod the games you want to beat. Then you get a smooth experience without looking shit up.
Console is a Google search, though.