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-9

Independent ATM in Amsterdam gives reasons why it would keep your card (slrpnk.net)

submitted 2 years ago by activistPnk@slrpnk.net to c/thenetherlands

7 comments fedilink hide all child comments

An ATM branded “Your ATM Services” was inside a convenient store with a signposting saying “reasons why your bank card may not be returned”:

the card is damaged
fraud is suspected
your PIN is entered incorrectly 3 times

Is that stupid or what? I went to a different ATM.

If the machine thinks my card is damaged, I would still like my card back because who’s to say the machine’s ability to read the card is not broken? Or maybe the EMV chip contacts just need to be cleaned.
“fraud” is flagged by AI algorithms that are often wrong. If you misjudge the forex rate and accidentally ask for more than your limit, that’s sufficient to trigger the card being flagged for fraud. Once the card is swallowed, your chance to simply clear things up with a phone call to your bank are gone.
We get 3 tries at our pin for a good reason. The first attempt can easily be botched because you enter the pin for the wrong card. The 2nd attempt might repeat that same mistake because you thought maybe your hand entered something different than your brain intended (motor skills & muscle memory). The 3rd can be any number of other things. So you think “i’ll stop if I get it wrong twice”. Then you go to another ATM. Then your bank’s AI algo says changing machines after a wrong pin is suspicious.

I suppose they’re trying to discourage thieves from using stolen cards at that ATM. But in effect the rules are stacked against legit consumers.

It’s bizarre that these are legal reasons to swallow the card. And makes me wonder what other ATMs have that policy without telling you.

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[–] Oisteink 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

With the ability to “tap” to pay there’s little to no need of inserting the card at all.

[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Good point. I didn’t notice if that machine had that ability, but I know my card does not.

[–] Oisteink 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I’ve no idea if that machine can do it - but contact-less payment is pretty common in Europe (or maybe just Nor/Swe/Den)

[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

To be clear, we’re not talking payments; this is an ATM. Don’t contactless payments have a low maximum since they don’t require a PIN? A card I use for payments is contactless, but my ATM card uses a chip and PIN. I’d be concerned if someone could steal my card and simply tap it at an ATM to get cash.

[–] Oisteink 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Here in Norway you only get pin-less payment under certain amounts. Beyond that you need a pin. When I fill petrol on my car, I tap with my phone/or card, and is asked for my PIN

[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

In any case, that would be a good defense for this ridiculous card-eating ATM.

For those of us without RFid cards, I’m thinking it’s worthwhile to track which ATMs have motorized slots & which ones have manual insertion.

[+] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I doubt it matters. Two out of 8 of my cards state on the card that it is the property of the card issuer. A few others say use of the card is subject to the terms. The rest make no statement or property claim on the card. I’m not sure if it’s safe to say all cards are claimed by the issuing bank as their property. In the case of the 2 cards, if someone steals them you could say they’ve stolen the property of my bank. In the other cases it’s unclear who is designated as the victim.

I think it’s irrelevant whose property the cards are. Dutch law would state one way or another whether an ATM can (or must) confiscate cards and in which situations, and that law would have force regardless of who in the world owns the card.

EMV chips can only take a certain amount of abrasion. They can also lose conductivity due to a buildup of film/scum. It’s easy to fix: a pencil eraser works well for making the contacts clean again (if not simply rubbing with your finger fails). If it’s worn out from excessive insertions, simply using a different machine might work because the pins won’t necessarily touch the contacts in precisely the same spot (if you look at an EMV chip, you see some variation in alignment of the scratch lines). I see no case for wanting your dysfunctional card to be seized. If you tell your bank your card is broken beyond recovery, the bank will simply believe you. Unless the ATM can dispense a new replacement card on the spot, the confiscation is only an anti-consumer action.

In principle that’s quite useful that some banks can send you a code that bypasses the need of a card. I personally refuse to run non-free software & exclusive google-distributed software, and apps that refuse to run in a VM, so the apps of all my banks fall very short of my requirements. Most of the websites of my banks are a disaster as well. So I’m mostly an offline customer. Nonetheless it sounds like a useful feature for most of the not-so-fussy population.