Samsung phones can survive twice as many charges as Pixel and iPhone, according to EU data : technology

[–] blah3166@piefed.social 130 points 1 day ago (4 children)

From @fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com on a post over at !android@lemdro.id

Yeah this is just manufacturers self rating themselves. This is just like VW cars rating themselves as getting 5-10mpg better than their competitors, when really they were just measuring from the balls.

The up side is if they fail to meet those ratings then are the consumers entitled to some sort of compensation?

Btw, I love how Piefed shows comments from cross-posts. Every client should do it, helps make the fediverse feel bigger and more diverse.

[–] JWBananas@lemmy.world 71 points 1 day ago (3 children)

This comment says otherwise:

https://lemmy.world/comment/18057099

How is battery life measured under this new EU regulation?

One interesting detail is that the battery endurance rating in the new labels is tested using the same software used by many tech reviewers: SmartViser. This French automation company works with labs and manufacturers to simulate real-world usage. So now, the battery performance you see on the label is based on consistent, lab-tested data, not just marketing claims.

[–] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

the actual legislation is not that specific as far as i can tell:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32023R1669#anx_I

Article 5

Measurement methods

The information to be provided pursuant to Articles 3 and 4 shall be obtained by reliable, accurate and reproducible measurement and calculation methods, which take into account the recognised state-of-the-art measurement and calculation methods, as set out in Annex IV.

Article 6

Verification procedure for market surveillance purposes

Member States shall apply the verification procedure laid down in Annex IX when performing the market surveillance checks referred to in Article 8(3) of Regulation (EU) 2017/1369.

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[–] themurphy@lemmy.ml 38 points 1 day ago

It's also wrong. That comment is misinformation.

They are lab tested by a 3rd party in the EU, SmartViser.

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is piefed an instance?

[–] blah3166@piefed.social 15 points 1 day ago

Piefed is both an instance (piefed.social) and back-end server software that allows anyone to run their own instance (list of various Piefed instances). It works on the same ActivityPub protocol as Lemmy and Kbin/Mbin so they all interoperate with each other.

One of the cool things I like about Piefed is it seems to join the comments of various instances in cross-posts. On Lemmy, you can see its crossposted, but you have to manually check them out to see any comments on others. One cool feature I like over Lemmy. There's a few others, but I'd encourage you to check it out. You don't have to commit if you don't like it.

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[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 53 points 1 day ago (7 children)

That’s strange, considering they all use the same battery suppliers.

[–] jalkasieni@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 day ago

It makes sense once you consider that these numbers are the manufacturers self reporting. That means they aren’t comparable, so drawing conclusions like ”manufacturer X has better batteries than manufacturer Y” from these numbers is silly.

[–] Zanz@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Samsung encourages battery provisioning in it by the user. So most people using a samsung only charge to eighty percent.

[–] Vinstaal0 1 points 22 hours ago

That’s rhe same with my iPhone 16, it just charges to 100 every so often

[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

How so? With heavy usage all my Samsung phones barely made it through a full day. I've never considered throttling the battery for the sake of longevity or been encouraged to by my phones.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

It's all up to where you live and how you use the phone.

One day heavy usage is the goal. I charge my S24 to 80% but only lightly call, and moderate chatting. I can make it from 6am to 8pm and still have well over 25% when I get home. Little to no gaming or social networks though.

It helps that I live and work in an urban area with good antenna coverage. So the phone doesn't use too much power talking to the network. People who live out in suburbs and rural areas have worse phone battery life because the phone has to struggle talking with antennas further away. Battery life is complex and it goes beyond what personal anecdotes can show.

[–] Zanz@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 day ago

When you do the initial setup it asks if you'd like to optimize for battery health and most people say yes. Most recently it wouldn't even tell you that it was only charging to 80%.It would still charge to a hundred but that would actually be eighty percent. Around a year ago they changed it so now it says eighty percent when you're at full charge if you have the battery health turned on.

If you turn on the battery over provisioning you would see the same battery life at about a year and a half and then after that the provision battery will last longer. After the exploding phone they also provisioned five percent of all batteries.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

i did that for a month, it was actually more annoying than its worth, it made charge more often than i like. i was using a OPR12

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 day ago

Doesn't mean they use the same chemistry. There's a lot of different lithium batteries.

Samsung isn't even using the latest\greatest tech in cell phone batteries. The Redmagic 10 pro uses a silicon-carbon anode based battery in a dual cell form. It means fast charging is split between 2 batteries so there's less battery damage on a recharge, and the chemistry is more energy dense.

Also, it seems the cell phone companies self assess the tests and report them to the EU, so take the whole thing with a grain of salt.

[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 day ago

Could be a difference in how they've set up charging cut off points.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

Anecdotally it seems to be the case for me. I switched from the A series to the Pixel and I'm pretty disappointed in how quickly my battery life has degraded.

[–] gonzo-rand19@moist.catsweat.com 6 points 1 day ago

Well, it could be that their electrical design or engineering teams have a bigger budget for prototyping and R&D. It's not just the battery that affects the charging function.

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[–] LostXOR@fedia.io 17 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I'm at 943 cycles on my Pixel 6 Pro and it's still going strong. I slow charge it every night and try to avoid fully draining the battery to slow down the deterioration, which seems to have worked pretty well. Thankfully a battery replacement is only $50 so it won't cost much when I do have to replace it.

[–] phx@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

Yeah I've got a P7 Pro and the battery is still fine. Adaptive charging enabled to help batter life.

Handed my P6 down to my daughter and it's still fine for her too

[–] lauha@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Where can you see charge cycles?

[–] LostXOR@fedia.io 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Settings -> About phone -> Battery information

[–] lauha@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'm on pixel 6a. There is no battery info there

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[–] sqgl@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I don't see that menu option. I do see Settings -> Battery but it does not count cycles.

Pixel 4a Android 14

[–] rbos@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Doesn't show charge cycles for me, sadly. Samsung A52

[–] LostXOR@fedia.io 5 points 1 day ago

Hmm, might be a Pixel / GrapheneOS thing.

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I had the same phone, and the only reason I replaced it was because the USB C port was finicky. It must have been damaged at some point and when plugged in, the cable had to be just right. Wireless charging works great, but I wanted the stability of being able to plug in and know it would discharge over night when I didn't have a wireless charger. Otherwise, I had no issues with the battery, and I got the phone when it was pretty new to the market. I swapped it out just a few months back, and it's going to be my test phone for grapheneOS and may end up being a communal remote.

[–] GreenCrunch@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago

(Not saying this was your case, but generally good to check) - a finicky/wobbly USB type c connector has been a symptom of a dirty charging port several times in the past. Awful lint/dirt would get packed down into it, preventing the charger from fully inserting.

I ended up carefully and gently picking it out, though there are some delicate small contacts in there!

Anyway, good luck trying GrapheneOS! It's been my daily driver for months and past the learning experience it's great!

[+] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago

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[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)

1,000 charge cycles: OnePlus 13

Hmm. This one has newer silicone-carbon lithium-ion batteries, which should actually increase charge cycles, so what's happening here?

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 24 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Isn't one plus one of the brands that has their own fast charging tech, that's extra fast?

Makes total sense if they traded in longevity for speed.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Isn’t one plus one of the brands that has their own fast charging tech, that’s extra fast?

Yes, but...

OnePlus offloads heat to the charger, so the phone actually doesn't get hot while charging. This fact alone would IMPROVE charge cycles, even at fast speeds.

But OnePlus also uses quite a few "tricks" to preserve battery health. Did the test include those features or did they turn them off. And if they turned them off, did they do the same with the Samsung phones (which have similar battery-health preserving options)?

I've had my OP13 since the day it came out (around 5-6 months) and keep it charged to 80% (built-in feature) and only charge it to 100% when I'll be out for the day and need to use GPS with max screen brightness. Battery health is still 100%.

I've owned a lot of Samsung phones before that, and the battery health was the only reason I've needed to replace them. So, I'm glad to see that the EU is taking charge cycles into account.

One piece of the puzzle that the numbers don't mention, is that the smaller battery of the Samsung phones means you'll be charging more often (i.e. more charge cycles) vs. something like a OP13 with a larger battery and excellent battery life (i.e. fewer charge cycles for the same use). Maybe that balances things out, but I'm still shocked that Sammy can get 1000 more charge cycles, which is YEARS more battery health than the other brands.

edit: clarity

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

OnePlus offloads heat to the charger

Some of it. They omit some circuitry that would have generated additional heat in the phone, and have it in the charger instead, but that doesn't magically mean the battery itself wont generate the inevitable heat caused by being charged faster. The battery itself only accepts one voltage, so the only way to charge it faster is amps.

And my feeling is that they aren't using the gains from this to make the batteries last, as SUPERVOOC is faster than pretty much every other standard. That makes me think they turned in any and all gains in battery health, for speed.

Most chargers send the additional energy via the cable in the form of extra voltage, because that doesn't require a special cable. Turning that voltage into amps in the phone produces a little bit of extra heat, but that doesn't mean that by eliminating that step, you get none from the battery itself as it charges. You can technically charge with a higher voltage, if you set up a phone such that it has more than one lithium cell. Some phones do this, but this doesn't require the OnePlus approach of using a special charger that provides a higher current, since any fast charger that can do the usual higher voltage method of providing extra power will work.

Like you say. I'm curious how they test this. Even if one battery gets more cycles, it'll degrade with time, as well. iPhones fast charge, too, but not with the chargers that used to come with the phones. You have to get one specifically for fast charging to get faster-than-normal charging.

Also, a tip. You may want to use something like AccuBattery to actually measure the state of the battery. Batteries, being chemical devices, have different capacities straight off the production line simply by virtue of not being chemically identically down to every molecule. (My Xperia 1 V unfortunately came with 93% design capacity, still within manufacturing tolerance, but the lowest I've seen on a new battery, it can be a bit of a lottery)

The built-in battery health monitor will just say "all good" until it isn't. AccuBattery has allowed me to monitor every percentage of degradation over the lives of my last few phones.

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[+] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

[deleted]

[–] Peter1986C@lemmings.world 1 points 15 hours ago

Pixel models <=5 have Qualcomm SoCs in them, while model >=6 has Tensor SoCs developed by Google (but fabricated by Samsung IIRC). No Samsung Exynos SoCs in them.

[–] douglasg14b@lemmy.world 4 points 23 hours ago

Damn, yeah. My pixel will drain 50% or more in a day, in my pocket. Brutal

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[–] mintiefresh@piefed.ca 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Wow. This is excellent for Samsung users.

I believe these are just claims rather than actual tests or measurements right?

[–] InnerScientist@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Apparently not

the new labels is tested using the same software used by many tech reviewers: SmartViser. This French automation company works with labs and manufacturers to simulate real-world usage. So now, the battery performance you see on the label is based on consistent, lab-tested data, not just marketing claims.

Source

[–] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

the actual legislation is not that specific as far as i can tell:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32023R1669#anx_I

Article 5

Measurement methods

The information to be provided pursuant to Articles 3 and 4 shall be obtained by reliable, accurate and reproducible measurement and calculation methods, which take into account the recognised state-of-the-art measurement and calculation methods, as set out in Annex IV.

Article 6

Verification procedure for market surveillance purposes

Member States shall apply the verification procedure laid down in Annex IX when performing the market surveillance checks referred to in Article 8(3) of Regulation (EU) 2017/1369.

[–] InnerScientist@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

They also say this:

In the absence of relevant standards and until the publication of the references of the relevant harmonised standards in the Official Journal of the European Union, the transitional testing methods set out in Annex IVa, or other reliable, accurate and reproducible methods, which take into account the generally recognised state-of-the-art methods, shall be used.

So I remain hopeful.

[–] massive_bereavement@fedia.io 6 points 1 day ago

Let's hope Samsung didn't take a page from good ole VW's book.

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