this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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Political Memes

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[–] wampus@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 minutes ago

Strange semi related old person story -- back in highschool, one of our teachers had the class write essays on whether nationalism was good or bad. We were then given an option to either present our papers, or do a debate exercise with a kind of round robin pro or con. So you'd partner with 1 other person, debate if it was good or bad, then groups of 4 doing the same, until it was the whole class. In my paper and in my discussions, I had used a similar approach as this comic -- basically just establishing what nationalism was vs patriotism, and drawing nazi's in as an example too. No one in those discussions contested that Nazi's were nationalists -- but they still argued in favour of it.

By the end, I was the only person who thought nationalism was overall 'bad'. The tide had turned in the groups of 8 stage. Because a hot girl had declared her support for nationalism. That's all it took for people to like/excuse nazis, even back in the early 2000s. An excuse.

[–] Naevermix@lemmy.world 5 points 2 hours ago

Both are shit. It seems like american culture in general is just lesser-evilism.

[–] camelbeard@lemmy.world 26 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

If your whole identity is based on the fact you where born at some location on this planet, you really need some self reflection and deprogramming

[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 2 points 31 minutes ago

I was within these borders while I crawled out of a vagina. it's one of my greatest achievements and I'll base my personality on that

[–] Zezzoz@lemmy.world 16 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

And the brainwashing goes on and on..

[–] ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (2 children)

The word "Republican" actually comes from a decolonial form of Nationalist movement, and they are always the Left party. Elsewhere in the world, "Republican" still means something actually useful for human goddamn dignity. Since nobody sold out the premise.

You gonna tell an Irish Nationalist that they can't celebrate or defend their people even as "Unionist" Pogroms ravage Catholic parts of Northern Ireland?

You gonna tell an Indigenous Nationalist that their people can't have the land granted to them by treaties or stand for their people's sovereign water supply?

You gonna tell a Jewish Nationalist that they can't be Anti-Zionist, and build their idea of the Jewish Nation and its Diasporic people on standing up against oppression?

These illiterate, domesticated-ass liberals still think "nation = country = state", like this is 2nd grade. The closest they get to reading is a twitter post, my essaying protects me from their eyes. And they want to talk about what Nationalism is.

Meanwhile Patriotism? Is bipartisan. And it is Stan-ing for a State even as it commits a Genocide. Fuck all of that, and fuck your state. May Trump's incompetence burn the US's ability to inflict violence upon the rest of the world.

[–] breecher@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 hours ago

he word “Republican” actually comes from a decolonial form of Nationalist movement, and they are always the Left party. Elsewhere in the world, “Republican” still means something actually useful for human goddamn dignity. Since nobody sold out the premise.

It has nothing to do with that at all. They are called Republicans for historical reasons, but the name has long since lost all relevance to any specific policies, it is just a name for a ~~sports~~ political team. Other political parties in other places are called Republicans for other localised reasons.

Republic stems from the Roman res publica, but in modern political science it just means a state where the office of head of state isn't hereditary, ie. basically not a monarchy. This was a key factor in the 18th century, since most European (and globally as well) states were monarchies, so being a republic did mean a drastic change in political system compared to the norm. Not so much anymore, since most states in the world are republics, but they have very drastically different political systems, some are dictatorships others democracies.

[–] Zezzoz@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago

The word "republic" comes from res publica. Public thing.

Indeed, the meaning has been fully distorted, like anything else in the US, and sold to people with no moral, voted by people with no moral.

[–] slaacaa@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Existed just 4 years

Lost a war againt the USA

Prouldy waved 150 years later

[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

This is bullshit.

Even if the technical definition of "patriotism" is all of these good things, it doesn't matter because everyone thinks it means all of those bad things.

[–] breecher@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, people try to push this patrotism = good, nationalism = bad thing, but it is meaningless, because patriotism has long since become what Reinhart Koselleck would call a "Grundbegriffe", basically a universal term which everybody has accepted is good, but which everybody interprets and uses in a variety of different (and clashing) interpretations. It is a term you use to invoke that you are on the right side, regardless of what side you are on, because it just means "good".

[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 hours ago

Additionally, overt patriotism is usually nationalism.

Looking at this meme in the first panel, pride in who you are eventually becomes pride in who you aren't if you feel it strongly enough.

[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 33 points 10 hours ago

fuck either of them.

no loyalty to any state.

[–] Maxxie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 9 hours ago

Both are tribalism of different levels of intensity. Our brains are predisposed for us-them mentality, some stronger than others, some can leave it behind others never will. It's also the most exploitable feeling in the history of our species, with fear may be the close contender.

Obviously a government embracing tribalism leads to horrid shit (everyone without an armband knows it) BUT ignoring it completely allows something else snake its way into that void. If you're lucky its something vegetarian like football hooliganism, if you-re not -- pan-nationalism, religious zealotry, whatever the 4chan incel shit is, people who can't or won't leave tribal mentality will find a dirt to roll in.

IMHO it is worth considering implementing a civic religion a-la french republicanism. Yes it can be a gateway to nationalism, but it also lets tribal minded people wave their flags and "guard the civic values" or whatever while the rest of us continue our lives in peace. As a bonus it improves civic participation and if you're attacked -- well there's already something for you to rally around.

[–] the_q@lemmy.zip 28 points 10 hours ago

Patriotism isn't a good thing at all.

[–] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 25 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Office meme, they're the same picture. The world no longer needs people who are willing to die for, or equally kill for, their country

[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 3 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Yes, but climate change, water wars and possibly a fundamental change to world order are likely. One might not get a choice, if they prefer to continue living in freedom and peace.

Doesn't mean we need patriots though.

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[–] Confidant6198@lemmy.ml 14 points 10 hours ago

Nobody should be patriotic with the genocidal settler colony that is the USA.

[–] CXORA@aussie.zone 20 points 12 hours ago

Every "nationalist" believes themselves a "patriot".

All this image does is allow you to self-soothe that you're "one of the good ones".

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 31 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (14 children)

Both are stupid, especially if you live in the USA, where your government will let you be rendered homeless and dead in the street if you can't pay enough money into the capitalist machine.

What's to be proud of?

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