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I've never lost patience with my grandma like that. She's old, a sweet person (most of the time) and perfectly intelligent if you let her be.
In fact when guiding her with tech, I hate the way she calls herself stupid and slow when she makes mistakes.
We just don't make tech for old people the way we should. There are "accessible" phones but the ones I've had experience with are atrocious hackjobs with deal-breaking quirks, when the whole point is to be simple.
I agree, I have absolutely 0 issue with patiently leading people through a process. Even if they're a bit confused or unsure, as long as they are honestly listening and trying, I will try my best to explain things in a way they can understand. The thing that pisses me off is when people go all learned helplessness and try to get you to do it for them instead. No, I want you to try and learn it for yourself. If it doesn't stick, I'll patiently guide you again. Just try. Believe me, people of any age can "get" technology or refuse to learn. It's a mindset
I will make an exception, and that's when I'm dealing with people who literally cannot learn. If you have dementia or a severe learning impairment that's a different story, usually those folks will have someone else who can learn for them though.
You are 1000% correct. This is literally my job. All patience. They so often call themselves stupid to the point they shut down and don't want to learn. Its sad to see because you know it's due to being shit upon. I always tell them they know tons of things I have no concept of.
Yeah those lively phones are ass. iPhone se was go to recommend until they got rid of the button option.
Have the benefit of being in person though. If you're doing it on the phone you're a different kind of patient.
I've done it over phone many times. I have a system.
I have them read whatever is on screen until I figure out what they're looking at.
Then I use one of my own devices to follow along, so I have an idea of what they're seeing, so I can give extremely specific instructions.
This follow along while helping family is 100% why I keep a windows partition.
Man, I just had the dubious pleasure of helping my dad migrate from an iPhone 8 to 12 over the phone. It was a several hour/day affair. He had a different account for iCloud and the app store, and had gotten his account locked on the second. Also, he was going from 256gb to 128gb, so we had to move some stuff to iCloud. Add to that the fact I'm an android user.
We ended up putting my mom's phone with the camera facing his screen during video calls.
I think his least favorite change was going from touchid to faceid. The screen is a lot bigger, though.
Personally I would not recommend an iPhone to an elderly person. They are not going to use 99% of the features anyway so what's the point in buying an expensive phone when you can get them a cheap Samsung for 150 bucks.
The justification used to be that IOS was a friendlier interface but I think a combination of Android getting better and iOS getting worse means that that's no longer the case. Hell their new design apparently makes everything transparent and hard to see.
I've seen a tablet for old people. The whole interaction is limited to NFC cards. Instead of having to open an app to start a video call, you put the Call Flipper card in a tray. On the other side I can send pictures which are then displayed for her.
My 95 grandma would never have been able to use a smartphone/tablet otherwise.
Sounds ok.
But limiting. My grandma is still able to learn and think.
She currently uses a tablet and a phone. Android, set up by me, and locked down as much as possible.
One home screen, with the apps she wants on one half of the screen, and a widget that shows notifications on the other half. (Limited only to notifications from apps like whatsapp, etc., she doesn't need see that the phone updated the OS during the night etc.)
This way, all I had to do, was tell her how the home button works, and how the back button works. No explaining quick settings or the notification shade.
From there, she's slowly learned each app, always safe in knowing she can hit home/back if confused, and take it from the beginning.
The notification widget has been especially good, as it is always there showing her her messages, and she can tap them to go straight to replying.
It's infuriating to me that all modern devices require extra steps, just to see messages you've received. The way a message would be shown on the lock screen and then be "gone" upon unlocking the screen was infinitely confusing to her.
I would eliminate the "features and benefits" by turning off notifications on the home screen.. The phone goes boop then she goes to the messages cause it has a unique sound and check their message. Almost all the other goofy apps, unless it's messaging, I turn off the notifications. For me, the best approach is eliminating variables. But this is all relative to the needs and desires of each unique individual. But I think eliminating variables is the best approach. Unless they get curious about something and ask questions, then you can expand off of the basics.
In fact when guiding her with tech, I hate the way she calls herself stupid and slow when she makes mistakes.
In my experience these are the users who are the most independent and it always makes me feel bad when they have a silly issue so I try telling them how dumb users can really get.
We just don’t make tech for old people the way we should.
My mother in law says things like "Wow, your son is just so good with computers." She was impressed at how "tech savvy" he was because he was able to change the brightness on her phone for her so she could show him a picture better.
A lot of our UIs are built for absolute no-thinking usability. How would you propose changing the brightness on a phone that would make it more "old people friendly". It's not a matter of difficulty. She just doesnt remember these things, and a different flow may not necessarily be remembered either.
And I'm not saying its her fault or that she's bad because of it. She was raised learning how to do and remember things a certain way and that has necessarily changed over the years.
A phone can do a lot of things, so unless you want to have 100 apps on your home screen, you'll have to group some together. For instance, putting WiFi into a Settings app. Having every individual setting just available on the home screen potentially complicates things even worse by being overwhelming.
Genuinely curious how you think things like this could be redesigned to be more old people friendly.
Well, I'd start with physical buttons. Forget stuff like face ID. A button that scans your fingerprint is a lot simpler to "get". Same goes for volume keys.
Automatic screen brightness is pretty good, but if it weren't a thing, buttons would work there. That's how laptops do it.
I'd add a feature that makes certain settings reset to "default" after a configurable amount of time (or never). Airplane mode or mute could turn off over night, so grandma can never "disable" her phone and become unreachable, or unable to reach anyone. (Except by turning it off, a concept almost no-one has to be taught)
Give me the ability to disable quick settings in the notifications shade, grandma doesn't need to toggle nfc, wifi, her data connection, or start screen recording (I literally tried to remove all the quick settings, but there's a minimum!). Hell, get rid of the notification shade completely and make it a physical button that just opens your messages from whatsapp, sms and email, all in one list.
I don't think we need to dumb down everything a phone can do. And I think we can assume an elderly person can get help with changing settings or setting it up to begin with. As such, what I wish fir, is for the simple stuff to be even simpler, and for the complicated stuff to be hidden away and essentially have configurable child locks, so they can't be touched, except by someone who knows what the stuff does.
It should be possibly to put a device in a mode where it is "senile-proof". But it isn't. My grandmother can, and has, put her devices in a state where they do not work, simply by turning on airplane mode without realizing. And our current solution is to use Life 360, so we can check that her phone is still "online" and have someone visit her to fix it, if it isn't.
(I literally tried to remove all the quick settings, but there’s a minimum!)
Oh yes, this bothered me deeply the first time I encountered it.
I've been doing tech support for a couple decades and I have had the pleasure of training many people from all walks of life on how to use these things. Some of them never used a smartphone or even wanted it.
In the early days blackberry had an edge with the keyboard and minimal apps. It was very corporate and standardized.
As we moved onto early android phones it did have very helpful features to make it more like a dumb feature phone. Using these was a huge boon with those that didn't care to learn how to use them or really just didn't get it.
As time went on, these features were dropped or made irrelevant by other invasive features (like the busier and busier notification drawer)
What I found curious was many of these helpful features didn't go away entirely but were locked behind a secret corporate mode. This more extreme level of control is typically exposed through MDM software.
I've found over the years that apple devices (these also have a corpo mode) are easier for the elderly to use as the UI has largely stayed the same and the OS treats you like you're dumb. It has better accessibility options and my elderly customers love talking to siri.
I feel like as the knobs and levers generations dies out; the attention manufacturers and designers put towards this demographic dwindle drastically.
I remember the old GameBoy with the contrast knob on the side was super useful, and something like that may be useful. But there is also the argument if you've reached this point in life today, you're probably not going to use it unless forced to. And teaching people who feel forced into something is unproductive and often makes them more afraid of technology. Some would say leave them to the wolves by this point. (not how I feel)
Physical buttons for brightness is a bad idea. People will just press them by accident and then complain that the screen changes brightness all the time. Laptops get away with it because they already have a bajillion buttons, and anyway in most cases the screen brightness buttons are actually multifunctional anyway so it doesn't add to the button count.
The main issue is that these smartphones are sold as some kind of revolutionary tool. But they are just computers with GPS trackers. Basically, human trackers. What older people need is a real community. We all need a real community. We need health care. We need housing. We need affordable living. When you're not completely stressed out, dealing with old people is not really that big of a deal. I mean, there are so many redundancies. I'm not surprised that older people have trouble just turning on their TV nowadays. I mean I think it's a cluster fuck. I think TV's nowadays are really just kind of irrelevant, especially for the next generation. But smart this, smart that it's just an opportunity for people to mine data from consumers. These redundancies are a fucking headache and they're everywhere. And supposedly car companies are going to get rid of Android Auto and to start selling your data, listening to you constantly. And when you buy a new car, sometimes it offers free cell service because it has a cell modem inside of it. And so it's basically just a phone that's on in your car 24/7 spying on you. It's frustrating being the guy pulling his hair out freaking out over things. When people look at you they see a tin foil hat man, but you know how it works. And they're just not listening because they don't understand the consequences. we live in the age now, where if you do some digging, there are plenty of horrific stories of this poorly thought out tech that is there to be like the Wizard of Oz, up our asses 24-7, spying on us, and there's no regulation nobody watching out for us either. Its bitches running wild. It's gotta stop. Also, another thing, I guess in Australia, they're trying to do this thing where they limit the usage of social media to certain age groups like kids. They all have all different solutions for this and some of its facial tracking. Anything they can do to shoehorn in something that is invasive, where they're like literally just trying to take your DNA, a Pee sample, and your iris scan. Also it will be poorly stored on some server. So it can be stolen by another corporation who paid that corporation to steal it, so they can sell it to somebody else. And then a gang who steals your identity and all your money when in reality it was just the corporation all along. If people only knew the trans-international security state and how it just justifies its own existence, It's the global fascist order and it has nothing to do with race. It has to do with class and who owns the mechanism that is the Wizard of Oz. Want to know who has the most child porn? The intelligence agencies. It's all a game. They play out this scenario over and over again and it just feeds into their justification of existence. It's like, careful what you wish for. Because eventually, it's just gonna be turned into a bad thing. I lean into the technology thing, but at the same time, I also believe in a reductionist approach. Don't find a need for tech. Allow tech to be the solution with absolutely no fucking subscriptions.
It's frustrating being the guy pulling his hair out freaking out over things. When people look at you they see a tin foil hat man, but you know how it works.
A few tips to better avoid the tinfoil hat-similarities:
Break up your text into more easily digested paragraphs. One chunk of text like this just seems rambling regardless of how poignant it might be.
Stick to one topic, or make the transition from one topic to another make sense. Going from spying cars, to a whole country collecting DNA through pee samples, to corporations are gangs, to fascist world order, to intelligence agencies collect child porn, to not wanting subscriptions in tech, while sprinkling in the Wizard of Oz at random times (in a more thought-out text it could be a powerful comparison to explain the issue or tie in to a red thread, but not just by mentioning the name and moving on)... It gets quite similar to the speech patterns of someone with untreated schizophrenia.
Clarify why you are making a claim. For example the one about intelligence agencies having lots of child porn: Is it a good or a bad thing? Why do they have it? And how does it relate to the topic of seniors issues with tech, or mass surveillance through phones?
Share your sources, especially for the lesser known claims. Put the relevant links at the end of each paragraph so it's clear what each link refers to and it's address.
I'm always like, read the screen. But you know what? Sometimes they can't fucking see the screen. So you gotta get them a bigger screen. They also won't admit that they can't see the screen. So you're going to have to pick up on cues. If you find yourself saying over and over again, you know, read the screen. You see that on the screen? over in the right hand side of the screen. On the screen.
Is usually around this point in time that they admit that they haven't actually got the computer in front of them. I guess they're just trying to memorise the instructions or something.
Some perfectly intelligent people just turn off all their braincells and panic when they come into contact with tech that's slightly different to what they're used to, often regardless of age
Yes, working in tech I've personally encountered this lots and it never stops personally pissing me off. It's a facet of learned helplessness. It's pretty clearly a way to get other people around them to do things for them. They probably don't see it as manipulative but it is, albeit in a pretty minor way.
Yes yes I am not your drone
Steering another human by voice is a very bad interface. Prefer remote control when available.
Funny.
How without Wi-Fi? With a user clearly too stupid/panicked to click anything logical?
And they keep repeating "I'm not a computer person" as if that's some kind of excuse.
I have noticed an attitude like being a computer person is a defect, but they still want us to fix their shit, sometimes.
It's not fool-proof by any means. All I'm saying is that you should prefer the option when available.
In that case, that actually usually requires to make an on-site visit.
At least it offers a reason more to visit a relative (lol)
My 70 plus mother uses a fairphone and Linux. Switching cost is a lie. Windows is the virus, apple is the virus and google is a terrorist organization. I taught her not to be intimidated by the threats of big tech and to stop answering her phone.... All the time. Capitalism is predatory in its nature. There is no tech fix for anything other than legislation and holding these big tech companies accountable by chopping off their fucking balls. Also, people are going to have to start, you know, going their own way. Switching cost is a lie. It's an absolute fucking lie. European countries are changing, getting away from big yankkkee tech. Features and benefits More like pull your hair out and headaches, we have to remember, computers are for math and long distance computation.. They are not a tool for the Wizard of Oz. They are not a tool for the self-fulfilling prophecy of the criminal. The feedback loop that just leads to more and more of a police state and the justification for infiltrating all of our lives. But it's hard to talk about computing if you can't talk about imperialism and all the feedback loops and reflexive effects. It's crazy how math, political science, and computer sciences, they can be compartmentalized, but they really intersect.
Switching cost is a lie.
It is very much a reality. One that tech companies have put hard work into creating, with vertical integration and contractual locking down of spare parts, which could otherwise have been components for anyone's DIY project.
My current phone cost < $200 and I always tend to buy lower cost phones.
Now, if I were to buy something like a Fairphone, I would be looking into getting something shipped here, which would incur additional fuel costs and on top of that, taxes. And then add to that, that all future spare parts will require a similar effort, it becomes unfeasible to me real fast.
The only way it makes sense, is if someone in my country starts considering doing the same thing, which requires a great change in a lot of people's mindset.
And that is why "European countries are changing", slowly. It will take more than a little while and so will all other countries. It will require people to have enough time and aptitude to start realising what kind of a society is actually worth working towards and much more to have enough people act on it.
Have some patience and let them learn, it will be fine
Some of them refuse to learn though
"I'm just not a tech person! ::most annoying giggle imaginable::"
You don't have to be a tech person to know how to use basic features on your damn phone! You're not a mechanic because you know how to use the radio!
Those are the ones you take out back and shoot.