this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2025
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[–] shirro@aussie.zone 4 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

I would say the US has an executive with aspirations to implement aspects of a fascist state. As long as millions of people are protesting in the streets, the courts are ruling against the executive on points of law and people are standing their ground it is still a long road for the executive to get where they want to go. If the country really was full fascist you would be totally fucked and being shipped with your family to a concentration camp for disloyalty to great leader right now.

Unlike some other countries where law enforcement and prisons might be state run on principle, the US has a history of privatizing such functions. They had the union busting Pinkerton thugs, for profit prisons and bounty hunters. A society that didn't cry out when the Pinkertons were busting the heads of working people or kids were being railroaded into for profit prison slavery shouldn't be surprised when thugs are clearing the streets of immigrants. That is just America sadly. That nastiness has always been there.

[–] jimjam5@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

For Texas at least, under penal code 9.31(a)(1-3) it’s presumed to be reasonable self defense to use force (it specifically does not mention what kind of force, but it is assumed that deadly force is included, I think) against a person who “was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.”

[–] WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 3 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Are people in denial? It just seems like a commonly understood thing. I've talked to straight CNN consuming boomers and even they see it for what it is.

For the record I'm in Canada so maybe it's just hard to see from the inside.

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[–] Enfors@ttrpg.network 22 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Is it legal in the US to shoot people who are trying to kidnap you?

I mean, anyone can go around claiming to be law enforcement or ICE or whatever, but with no badge or ID, how are people supposed to know that this isn't a gang trying to trafic them?

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 12 points 21 hours ago

In vast majority of states there is a stand-your-ground law in place, which means you're explicitly allowed to use deadly force if you reasonably believe that you're defending yourself from a violent crime, and in minority there is a duty to retreat while outside of your home or workplace, which means that you still are allowed to use deadly force, but you have to try to retreat first, and only use force if you are reasonably sure that you can't run away.
Kidnapping by a group of people in plain clothes in an unmarked van is explicitly stated as an example of a case where use of deadly force is permitted by law.

[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think that would count as self defence.

[–] FriendFatale@leminal.space 5 points 22 hours ago (1 children)
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[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 2 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

I'm pretty sure self defence doesn't apply against law enforcement, even if you don't know they are law enforcement.

[–] QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.works 5 points 19 hours ago

There have been cases where firing upon law enforcement who failed to adequately identify as such has counted as self defence

[–] jimjam5@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

It may not, but imo you do what you have to do to protect yourself against aggravated kidnapping, and then hope you/your lawyer can articulate how/why you did what you did later in court.

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago

Oh, totally, no dispute there.

As Legaleagle put it in their most recent video: At that point it becomes logical to resist arrest, to run or to fight.

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[–] CultHero@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)
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