The problem is they keep dissagreeing on details and forget, they'll never agree on everything.
this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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This one is fun because it could be both about tankies and actual leftists depending on what you believe in.
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(4 replies)
online leftist
Important things happen offline, online is more or less a distraction.
I don't know if that's really true anymore. Or, maybe more accurately, I think we're in between when that was true in the pre-social media age and when it'll be true again after the social web breathes its last. There are just too many ways that megacorps, bad actors, and foreign agents can manipulate offline activity with online action.
Some of those things are manipulating small groups into large-scale action (see: Qanon), but misinformation and meme warfare also have a measurable effect on election, direct action, etc. Not to mention that local organization is best done online, and that has a very real effect.
Now, is offline action more important than online action? Absolutely, and if you're saying that being an "online leftist" (as an identity) is a distraction, I think I agree with you. But online action is more than just a distraction, and to ignore it is probably counterproductive.
Yes let's start a 3rd party
wave of downvotes and idiots screaming about RCV even though that's not a disqualifier
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That's not only a problem of online leftists spaces. The left has always been pretty busy with discussing what page of the capital is more beautiful written...
I would say largest problem with leftist spaces is a little more challenging to identify; it's that leftists are broadly intellectuals or at least identify as intellectual because of effort they put into honoring nuance. And the primary opponent of leftists are conservatives, and they are proudly not intellectual and view people who use the lens of intellectualism and nuance as weak or elitist.
Because it's incredibly difficult to have any kind of meaningful intellectual debate with your opponents, we have all retreated to our safe-spaces and online bubbles, our discord groups and algorithm-driven feeds. We don't even walk in the same environments or view the same media anymore,
So in order for people on the left to feel any kind of satisfaction and feel like their mental strength actually has a use, they find someone else who is ostensibly on the left and attack something that person said or did which they feel does not represent their own leftist values.
Our eternal, infernal infighting problem is because we have an army of head-warriors who have no heads to butt against. Even if there were people on the right willing to have intellectual debates, they're not even in the same talking-space anymore. The only place you can go to have debates are contentious battleground where nobody is even arguing in good faith and just screaming their talking points for audience upvotes. So leftists, being humans, take the easy path and turn on each other to feel like they're making any progress or are involved at all in making things better.
On the right it's much easier to feel like you're part of the movement or doing something for your group, all you have to do is buy a gun or stockpile trumpcoins and canned food or harass someone or get drunk and scream about minorities. It's mindless and pointless but it feels like action. And sadly, more and more people are being turned away by this kind of mental effort and emotional labor of "doing the right thing" so they're getting sucked in by the mindless orcs who have more fun and have easier victory conditions.
it's that leftists are broadly intellectuals
I used to think this. Then everyone came out about how Kamala didn't get them excited, aka appeal to their emotions. When I pointed this out and that they weren't thinking logically and instead relying on emotions they frankly agreed, saying something something not a robot. And there were proud of it.
I agree, even the notion that the left is more "intellectual" is surface-level only, you can just as easily be someone who thinks but uses those thoughts to validate feelings over shared reality. We do a very bad job broadly of understanding or recognizing our own cognitive biases and dissonances, and the left is just as stupid as the right about a great many things. This isn't to take the position of the enlightened centrist, but instead the need to remind people that this isn't WWE, and we're not actually choosing sides, we're trying to uphold values and principles that others happen to share. We want good outcomes for everyone, not specific outcomes for specific people.
Even if we solved all our issues tomorrow and removed the republican leadership from politics entirely, we would still have to share a country with them the next day, and how rapidly would we become the thing we hate as we work to punish them or ignore them until they reach a breaking point? We are doomed to repeat history over and over because we cannot separate ourselves from our survival instincts and feelings, and we have fantastic brains that will spin narratives to justify our feelings about anything, from the most mundane decisions about lunch, to genocide.
Is being an intellectual mutually exclusive with having emotions? Because as far as I know all people have emotions..
If you let your emotions dictate your thoughts and actions, I have bad news for you.
Bro, you do it too, you just don't admit it to yourself.
I don't do it to a point of being a complicit in electing Hitler 2.0. Which shouldn't be abhigh bar. But here we are!
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I have referenced this post so many times but was never able to find it so thanks
and then people didnt vote in the 2024 election
Not to ironically quibble, the sentiment is there, but I think "more important to do nothing correctly than something incorrectly" is closer to the mark