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'We have a geriatric problem' - Democrats wrestle with age-old issue (www.bbc.co.uk)

submitted 1 month ago by Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net

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[+] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 43 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

[deleted]

[–] ClimateStalin@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Honestly I would care. Like I would prefer non-genocidal old people than genocidal young ones, but I do think being old is inherently a problem for being in elected office

Cognitive decline is obviously a big concern, as well as the possibility of them just dropping dead like 3 already have. Also it distances them from the concerns of the much younger population.

But also on a more basic level I don’t trust them, they don’t have skin in the game. “Don’t order food for the table right before you leave the restaurant.” Things like climate change aren’t as real of a concern to someone in their 70s because they won’t be around to experience the worst of it. Like honestly I’m iffy on if people over retirement age should even be allowed to vote, let alone be in elected office.

Lower the voting age to 14, eliminate any age floors for elected offices, and introduce a ceiling that you can’t run for office if you’re over 65.

[–] TheVelvetGentleman@hexbear.net 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Comrade, I would trust a 75 year old before a 14 year old, any day. What the hell does my nephew know about current events other than the latest skibidi toilet lore? Leave the minimums where they are, just put some maximums in place.

[–] ClimateStalin@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I very strongly disagree. I’ve had intelligent conversations with many 14 year olds, whether they throw in a skibidi toilet reference or not.

Every time I talk to a 75 year old I have to explain how basic things work that they should absolutely know and then tell them “You can’t say that about Mexican people.”

Have you ever been in a car with a 75+ year old driver? They can’t navigate a parking lot and are consistently baffled by the concept that signs could instruct them where to go.

The average 14 year old knows more about climate change and how to stop it than half of the senate. I think you’re really underestimating the capacity of teenagers.

[–] ClimateStalin@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

And I didn’t say 14 year olds should be in office, just that they should be allowed to vote. It’s a very low bar.

Edit: whoops I did say lower voting age to 14 and remove floors for office, never mind. I’ll take lower voting age to 14 and lower floors for office to 18, because people under 18 should be banned from any employment anyway.

Honestly though when it comes down to it if you gave me a gun-to-my-head choice between a random 14 year old and a random 75 year old as president I would probably pick the 14 year old. If it was random 14 year old or random 85 year old I’m definitely picking the 14 year old.

Thats just an extreme comparison though, I am in no way saying a 14 year old should be president.

[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

To be honest I wouldn’t trust either.

I don’t think as a 14 year old I had the nuanced experience of the world that I would want to be voting. No experience of life. No context. Just not had enough time to come to a considered conclusion.

At the other end of the scale I don’t think I’d trust most 75 year olds to set up an internet contract, let alone decide the future of a nation when they have no skin in the game. I think below 18 you’re probably still a kid. But if you’re old enough join the army and die for your country that seems like as good place as any to say you’re old enough to have a say on the country.

So I’d say votes from age 18-70.

[–] ClimateStalin@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

High schoolers are very much aware of the state of politics and also seriously impacted by it. Shouldn’t the people most impacted by school boards, who absolutely have the capacity to understand what school board members are doing, have a say in who those members are?

I think you’re really underestimating the capacity and life experience of teenagers. They’re people. Especially if you’re not just looking at upper middle class white teenagers. A lot of 14 year olds have jobs. Like not even just under the table stuff, like W2 employment. If you’re having taxes taken out of your paychecks that you earn you should 100% be allowed to vote.

I don’t think 14 is an unreasonable line to set, and I think anything above 16 is deeply unjust. Many countries have 16 as the voting age, including Cuba, Brazil, Austria, Argentina, and most of the UK’s weird territories like Jersey and the Isle of Man.

Ultimately I don’t even really think there’s a serious downside to letting any and every resident of the country vote. Regardless of citizenship status, regardless of age, regardless of felony status. Prisoners currently in prison should be able to vote. 5 year olds should be able to vote. Why not? It hardly matters, and it’s not like the 5 year olds demographic is gonna be making serious swings in polling.

[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago

Shouldn’t the people most impacted by school boards, who absolutely have the capacity to understand what school board members are doing, have a say in who those members are?

Yeah sure, but you can take that argument further, why not a 13 year old, why not a 12 year old etc.. at some point you have to make a call on the maturity of a child in their ability to be decision makers who can make a sensible decision. As an alternative, I think youth councils who can feed into decision making in a real way (not a patronising toothless way) are a very good thing to feedback into the decision making system.

To turn your argument the other way though, should 85 year olds who are the most likely to be in receipt of social care and health care not have a say in how society provisions it? Additionally many old people are in work and paying taxes, surely they should get a say?

I don’t think 16 is a stupid age at all. Definitely a good argument to be made for that. Same with anyone paying taxes from their pay. In the uk that would be 16 - I can’t speak for the USA.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 4 weeks ago

Lower the voting age to 14

That would open entirely another bag of crabs libertarian approaches

[–] RamrodBaguette@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

While I agree, it's just another thing to emphasize just how out of touch these ghouls are.

[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

Yeah it takes a while for the hate for your fellow man to accumulate over time within democrats to get them to the point when they hate humanity enough to run the democratic platform.

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The Vatican, which is deliberately a gerontocracy, won't even let you vote for the Pope if you're over 80, and actual positions of influence are generally much younger. The USA has 20 members over 80.

Also it's good to remember yet again that every single leader of the Soviet Union was younger than Trump when they died (excepting Gorby because he sucks and thus Satan protected him)

[–] SevenSkalls@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

And I recall people saying the Soviet Union had too many old guys in charge, so that really says something.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

And they had the excuse of having lost the upcoming generation in WW2

[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

bugs-stalin : “Hey, I tried to quit, but I kept getting elected over and over!”

[–] Evilphd666@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago

no-choice We had no choice but to suppress the youth. We needed the Cold War era generations to be able to start a new Cold War era.

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is like if the Apollo 13 had waited until after they were on the dark side of the moon to admit to Houston they had a problem.

[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 20 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It’d be like if the ground crew of the Challenger space shuttle waited until after the launch to say they were massively overworked and (not) functioning on just 2 hours of sleep trying to rush to hit the launch schedule.

Oh wait… that’s exactly what happened and Challenger blew up seconds after launch due to an issue that was known about by many people but was swept away under the rug to not affect the deadline. No parallels to be seen here at all.

[–] octobob@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm working at SpaceX right now as a contractor for a few weeks. The engineers work 20 hour shifts, and typically live on site. I saw someone say he was up working until 330 AM and someone was giving him shit for not answering something at 6 AM.

[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah I’m sure you’re getting a lot of creative productive thoughts out of an engineering that is probably too tired to remember their own name. Ridiculous working practices.

[–] octobob@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm working 7 days / 12 hours down here which is just about my absolute limit. Thankfully just for a few weeks but there's a few more of these trips planned

[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

In the rail industry in the uk, there are fatigue regulations that are written in blood, that prevent people from working such ludicrous shifts. Since their introduction weirdly as well as accidents going down due to people not working huge hours and making mistakes/falling asleep behind the wheel etc, but also productivity has gone up. Because shattered people don’t actually make good efficient workers who make good decisions.

[–] octobob@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago

I'm obviously with you on this issue, but the US will skirt around any labor laws that are the norm globally that it can.

It's also one thing that SpaceX engineers are working 20 hours at their desks or occasionally going on site, etc. compared to the work I do which is more physically exhausting manual labor and sometimes outside in 100 degree heat all day. Both obviously shouldn't be happening.

The longest I've worked is about 17-18 hours in steel mills or back in the day on industrial solar farms for grid power. The solar work also played real loose with things when it got up to 120+ degree heat and we weren't able to work so they'd send us back to the hotel to come back later for night shift. So imagine working like 6am to 12 or 1 pm, going back to the hotel to "sleep", coming back after the sun set at like 8 pm, working until 2 or 3 pm the next day. That happened all the time.

This is more of a problem with heavy industry in the US than it is a SpaceX specific issue however.

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

"Old-age issue" kelly

[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

“HoW dO wE gEt ThEm To ReTiRe!?!?!”

FORCE THEM TO, DIPSHIT!

I want to believe people can do the right thing without being forced to, but so far I remain disappointed.

[–] SevenSkalls@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Why do the voters keep voting for these people in primaries? I couldn't believe when they reelected Diane Feinstein when she was already nearly 90.

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Name recognition. Most people aren't paying attention to anything, they'll look at a ballot, see the name that looks familiar and choose that one.

[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago (1 children)

About to say the same thing, Dianne Feinstein’s primary campaign outspent everyone else’s so had the most impressions plus the name recognition of being a senator for approx 300years means a lot of people knew of her.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I would totally vote for Ramesses the Great, now that's a name brand. And he actually look more alive than some of the US politicians. Not to mention over 3000 years of experience!

[–] autism_2@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

How is a zoomer president going to know how to handle the dinosaurs when Jurassic Park happens for real?

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 9 points 1 month ago

“We can’t find any trustworthy corporate shills to take our place, how can we trust anyone younger than 70 to take bribes from our corporate and oligarch donors?”

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago

they also have a genocide problem