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"We have a "Final ~~Solution~~ Stage" plan to ~~eraricate~~ force Gazans out of Gaza. We will be targeting civilians, including children, the disabled and elderly as we have determined that they are all, in fact, enemy combatants."
Tell me again how Harris would have been worse, please.
literally libs when people brought up ending the genocide during the campaign
Liberals would still be plugging their ears and making excuses for the slaughter, like you did for Genocide Joe.
She promised to continue providing material support to Israel's genocide, I'm not sure where you got the idea she would have been better.
tell me again how the people actively aiding the genocide would be any better, you fucking nerd, lol
polls showing the democrats lost literally millions, multiple millions, of votes solely due to their tireless support for the right for Israel to kill Palestinians
They could have, idk, stopped
They could have just lied about it, like they always do, and they didn't even do that
And yet somehow in your dumb fucking dipshit mind, Trump also supporting genocide means these people would have been better? Better than... someone doing the exact same fucking thing they were, and would be, doing anyway? What the actual fuck is wrong with you.
The question is how would Harris be any better
She certainly wouldn't be pushing to build a resort. And at one point (before she was a candidate) she was pushing to have Israel investigated so they could legally block support.
It's no surprise that she parroted the party line in an effort to get elected.
She certainly wouldn't be pushing to build a resort
No, she would have quietly let the Free Market sort it out instead of making money openly from her role in the genocide, which would just be garish.
And at one point (before she was a candidate) she was pushing to have Israel investigated so they could legally block support.
Yes, I've been assured she was, what was the phrase? Working tirelessly to secure a ceasefire the whole time, somehow. If that's true, I guess she's just terminally ineffective at her supposed job then.
It's no surprise that she parroted the party line in an effort to get elected.
The party line, in this case, being uncritical tacit support for Israel's torturous extermination of Palestinians.
So what you're saying is, she's a politically ineffective coward who isn't even a nazi in her heart but just went along with it because she thought it would help her attain power. A fascist and a loser.
Under Harris, the same thing would have happened, but liberals would have defended it.
Like others here have said kamala wouldn't have stopped this. The end goal of both her and trump were always enabling israhell to carry out it's final solution on gaza.
For all the people who are defederated from the hexbear people, the question is how would she be better. The only thing that would stop Israel from committing the final solution here is stopping military aid to israel and Harris repeatedly said she would not put any requirements/ provisions on military aid.
She may complainant bit more about how horrible this is, but words don't mean shit if your still sending them bombs to level gaza.
EDIT: the answer to both questions is she wouldn't, she wouldn't have been better or worse
Nono in fantasy land Harris would've 100% put an end to the Palestinian genocide if only you people would've voted!
If people are defederated from or blocking hexbear people, it's for a reason. You don't need to regurgitate their talking points on your dbzer0 alt because people aren't seeing the posts from your hexbear main.
The op asked a question, even gave a please asking for a response, and the only responses were from hexbear accounts.
Do you actually want answers for these questions, or do you just want facetious bad faith questions and have an echo chamber respond back that the other guys are idiots?
Also you caught me, your right anyone left of you who doesn't think Harris wouldve saved gaza is obviously a tankie hexbear alt. No need to actually engage with my argument either because I'm a tankie and obviously wrong.
You didn't even answer OPs question. You answered a different question they didn't ask because you don't have a good answer to their question.
If you want an echo chamber go back to scrolling hexbear on your main.
And you can't give a good answer to my question, because the answer to both questions is she wouldn't, she wouldn't have been better or worse. Here I'll even edit my original post, does that make it better?
If you think Harris wouldn't have been better you're grossly ignorant, not that I even set out to answer your question because frankly I don't care about you.
You think she’d be building a hotel on their bones?
Uh oh you triggered the hexbear tankies.
I thought they lost their domain. It was blissfully quiet when they were gone.
It seems they found another.
She would have been better in every single way.
But you can’t admit that when your garbage dump of a post communist government depends on chaos in the civilised world to not roll over and finally die.
Oh look a bunch of people from hexbear astroturfing. We get it, you folks are all boned up about Trump and are stoked for this genocide. No need to pretend like your aggressive campaigning for Trump wasn't hugely successful.
The question isn't "what would Harris have done differently", we have no idea what she would have done here, but we do know that she publicly advocated for restraint and a two state solution. Trump is publicly advocating for this final solution.
The question you should be asking is "All things being equal on this issue, which candidate is better on the other important issues"? You asked yourselves this and decided that Trump was better on LGBTQ rights, minority rights, freedom of press and speech, labor rights, health care, the economy, the environment, and everything else.
Congratulations tankies, you got your widespread unrestrained genocide.
Oh look a bunch of people from hexbear astroturfing. We get it, you folks are all boned up about Trump and are stoked for this genocide. No need to pretend like your aggressive campaigning for Trump wasn't hugely successful.
We literally have people on hb from gaza who fundraise and we donate to them. What crack are you smoking where we advocate for trump and cheerlead palestinian genocide??
They are mad 99.9999999999% hitler lost and 100% hitler won. Oh boy genocidal zionist candidate vs genocidal zionist candidate, I love voooooting for the lesser evil.
So mad they just make shit up:
i know it's difficult for liberals to remember anything further back then two SNLs ago, but we actually already had a widespread unrestrained genocide under biden
Congratulations tankies, you got your widespread unrestrained genocide.
Hey so I know this is just bad faith projection from someone who can't accept that they threw away their humanity supporting a doomed fascist ethnostate. I know that. So rather than dignify your childlike ego protection with a similar response, allow me to highlight a concrete reality instead:
While you sit there, totally unable to accept your culpability in arguing for the realpolitik "necessity" of ethnic cleansing, spinning soothing tales to revise history and absolve yourself, lashing out at those who don't entertain them, tankies are putting their lives on the line to stop the genocide you voted for.
Fortunately, unlike the liberal "Resistance", these antifascists won't immediately fold and become an entire party of enthusiastic collaborators the moment an opportunity presents itself.
Just because someone is against Harris/the Democrats does not automatically mean they are in support of Trump/the Republicans. This might come as a surprise to you, but we hate Trump and the GOP, too. We're just not under any illusions that the Democrats are going to fix anything.
We get it, you folks are all boned up about Trump and are stoked for this genocide
Link a single comment from Hexbear showing support for this genocide you lying fucking worm.
I'm a lib but I want to have a dialogue that's less shit throwing and more genuine.
Just because someone is against Harris/the Democrats does not automatically mean they are in support of Trump/the Republicans.
Agreed.
This might come as a surprise to you, but we hate Trump and the GOP, too.
Not a surprise, totally know that and appreciate you guys for it.
We're just not under any illusions that the Democrats are going to fix anything.
So neither am I, but I feel frustrated because we need to be protesting and making noise on this issue.
Its frustrating because our shared goal is to end the genocide, but you guys by staying home that election sabotaged this goal for us both and made the genocide worse than before.
If you focus on the material conditions of Gaza and think "which vote is going to lead to less Gazan lives lost" voting for Kamala seemed like a no brainer.
It's only when you bring your own ego into it "well I will never support genocide" that comes across like you're willing to sacrifice Gazan lives to feel self righteous about your values.
Had many of these tankies voted Kamala instead of staying home it would be so mucy easier to form a protest and get the pressure cooking on the dems
But because they stayed home (regardless of justification you might have) we've now lost the right to protest and many university students, scientists and academics are being disappeared into the night for speaking out.
This simply would not have happened under Kamala.
but you guys by staying home that election sabotaged this goal for us both and made the genocide worse than before
Democrats lost all on their own by pretending the economy was fine despite everyone clearly noticing it was not, and continuing to double down on supporting a deeply unpopular genocide. There are by far not enough 'tankies' in the US to sway an election like that. If we had that kind of power we'd be pushing our own party instead. 90 million people didn't vote in 2024, what are a couple thousand at most terminally online leftists compared to that?
The genocide was already bad under Democrats. No, we didn't forget that Genocide Joe sent Israel hundreds of shipments of weapons and supported them full-heartedly in their slaughter of the Palestinian people.
If you focus on the material conditions of Gaza and think "which vote is going to lead to less Gazan lives lost" voting for Kamala seemed like a no brainer.
Voting for Democrats would not have lead to fewer Gazan lives lost, because the Democrats don't give a fuck about Gazan lives. Biden was already giving them all the weapons they needed, and Harris made no indication she was going to change course. Harris would have enabled the genocide same as Trump.
It's only when you bring your own ego into it "well I will never support genocide" that comes across like you're willing to sacrifice Gazan lives to feel self righteous about your values.
My god please take a step back and look at yourself. Examine your views and have an ounce of introspection.
Had many of these tankies voted Kamala instead of staying home it would be so mucy easier to form a protest and get the pressure cooking on the dems
So what protests are you going to? What are you doing to put pressure on the Dems?
But because they stayed home (regardless of justification you might have) we've now lost the right to protest and many university students, scientists and academics are being disappeared into the night for speaking out.
Leftists did not cost the Democrats the election, Democrats just suck. Harris got 68 million votes in 2024 to Biden's 81 million.
This simply would not have happened under Kamala.
It was already happening under Biden, you were just content to ignore it.
Democrats lost all on their own by pretending the economy was fine despite everyone clearly noticing it was not, and continuing to double down on supporting a deeply unpopular genocide. There are by far not enough 'tankies' in the US to sway an election like that. If we had that kind of power we'd be pushing our own party instead. 90 million people didn't vote in 2024, what are a couple thousand at most terminally online leftists compared to that?
Yes they did, and they're to blame for terrible messaging and gatekeeping democracy to force Kamala as the candidate without voter input.
The Democrats dropped a candy bar on the ground and Trump shit on the floor. They then asked what I wanted for dinner.
While I blame the democrats for dropping the candy on the ground, I blame voters for not voting against poo.
90 million people didn't vote in 2024, what are a couple thousand at most terminally online leftists compared to that?
OP threw out tankie as a bad faith term and we just kept using it
I assume when we say 'tankies' we're using the term as OP originally did, ie anyone who abstained from voting for Kamala because they don't support genocide?
Those are the people I'm talking about, not terminally online people.
The genocide was already bad under Democrats. No, we didn't forget that Genocide Joe sent Israel hundreds of shipments of weapons and supported them full-heartedly in their slaughter of the Palestinian people.
Yes. Joe was sending weapons to aid the genocide. That's terrible and no excuse.
In light of comparing him to Trump though, Biden tried to set up a dock to distribute aid to Gazans when Israel tried to block it and continually threatened to stop sending these weapons if Israel bombed certain regions or were undertaking operations with crazy high civilian casualties.
Trump's policy is "let them bomb" and deporting people who disagree.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Voting for Democrats would not have lead to fewer Gazan lives lost, because the Democrats don't give a fuck about Gazan lives. Biden was already giving them all the weapons they needed, and Harris made no indication she was going to change course. Harris would have enabled the genocide same as Trump.
Okay, that's a genuine argument if true.
I just am shocked you'd say that. I already demonstrated that Democrats care at least slightly more than Trump. Do you need a source for Biden providing aid and pressuring for Israel to deescalate while also funding them?
My god please take a step back and look at yourself. Examine your views and have an ounce of introspection.
I have, but I agree I should continue doing so going forward.
It is important to think hard on our values and that goes both ways.
So what protests are you going to? What are you doing to put pressure on the Dems?
So first of all, there's now the unfortunate truth that because of voters staying home it is now more dangerous to protest than it needed to be and could come at great personal risk, especially to non citizens.
That's not an excuse not to protest, but it is hypocritical of you guys to cause it to be much more risky to protest by allowing Trump to win and then try to blame others for not taking the risk.
I'm in Canada so Im not sure how to effectovely protest US politics from here.
I am boycotting American goods, and I have a recurring donation to the food bank to help bring aid to Gazans and other starving people.
In terms of Canadian politics, our government put an arms embargo on Israel so we aren't supposed to be funding them but as of 3 days ago apparently that promise is broken so going forward that's an open question.
If your point is that I could do more, you're certainly right. I'll think on that.
Leftists did not cost the Democrats the election, Democrats just suck. Harris got 68 million votes in 2024 to Biden's 81 million.
Yeah, they threw the election seemingly on purpose because transitionary president Biden who we already voted in as the lesser of two evils just to stop Trump's second term decided he would take up space and prevent new candidates from stepping forward.
It was already happening under Biden, you were just content to ignore it.
I'm not content to ignore it, it wasn't happening.
Show me 3 examples of university students having their green card revoked for attending a protest under Bidens administration and I will apologize.
The Democrats dropped a candy bar on the ground and Trump shit on the floor. They then asked what I wanted for dinner.
Why can Democrats only offer candy bars for dinner when we need fresh fruits, vegetables, and actual healthy foods? The Democrats either don't know the right way to govern, or they know but they don't care. Do either of those options sound like a party that anyone should vote for?
I assume when we say 'tankies' we're using the term as OP originally did, ie anyone who abstained from voting for Kamala because they don't support genocide?
'Tankies' doesn't mean anything, it's a vibes word for "someone to the left of me I don't like." And most of the people who didn't vote in 2024 aren't leftist, because the American populace just isn't.
I did not vote Democrat in 2024 because the Democrats are not entitled to my vote by pretending to be less awful than the other team. I did not vote Democrat anywhere on the ticket because I refuse to be complicit in genocide. That is the hard moral line I am taking. There is no excuse for genocide.
In light of comparing him to Trump though, Biden tried to set up a dock to distribute aid to Gazans when Israel tried to block it and continually threatened to stop sending these weapons if Israel bombed certain regions or were undertaking operations with crazy high civilian casualties.
Note that at no point did he stop sending weapons, the one action he could have taken at any time to actually stop the extermination. He did not want the genocide to stop.
And the dock was a waste of money that was never going to accomplish anything. Everyone knew that the whole time.
Trump's policy is "let them bomb" and deporting people who disagree.
Evidently Biden's policy was also "let them bomb," as evidenced by the at least 14,000 tons of bombs he sent Netanyahu. And Biden deported more people than Trump 1. The terror is bipartisan and always has been.
Do you need a source for Biden providing aid and pressuring for Israel to deescalate while also funding them?
I don't need a source to know that if he wanted to deescalate he could have just stopped sending them weapons at any time.
That's not an excuse not to protest, but it is hypocritical of you guys to cause it to be much more risky to protest by allowing Trump to win and then try to blame others for not taking the risk.
We "caused it"? We "allowed Trump to win"? Who do you think your audience is? Nobody here voted for Trump. Unless you're equating "not voting for Harris" with "voting for Trump" which is just baby-brained nonsense. The only thing that's a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump.
I am boycotting American goods, and I have a recurring donation to the food bank to help bring aid to Gazans and other starving people.
Ok no arguments here. Legitimately way more useful than voting.
Show me 3 examples
No
Why can Democrats only offer candy bars for dinner when we need fresh fruits, vegetables, and actual healthy foods?
Corporate interests in politics. You and me donating to our favored candidates is nothing compared to the big money and lobbyists mega corporations are throwing around.
Democrats can't offer fresh fruit because the chocolate lobby is funding the chocolafe democrat in the fruit democrats district.
The Democrats either don't know the right way to govern, or they know but they don't care. Do either of those options sound like a party that anyone should vote for?
It's not any one party's fault. It's a systemic issue. People who don't actually represent voters are being given disproportionately amount of money to run campaigns because they represent businesses.
That being said I don't know if we should be looking at party as a whole but also who the candidates are.
If we pushed more progressive candidates like AOC who do call out Israel and show up to primaries we can steer the party to a more reasonable direction while realizing the 2 party system is broken and needs fixing.
I dont see how disengaging entirely from electoralism helps.
I did not vote Democrat in 2024 because the Democrats are not entitled to my vote by pretending to be less awful than the other team. I did not vote Democrat anywhere on the ticket because I refuse to be complicit in genocide. That is the hard moral line I am taking. There is no excuse for genocide.
You got to keep your "moral line" but if it was at the cost of worse material conditions in Gaza and means Gazans got more bombs and their aid and rights watch groups defunded then I'm not sure I agree that was worth it.
Your suggestion that the material conditions of Gaza under Kamala would have been equally bad doesn't feel very convincing.
And that's not even mentioning the genocide in Ukraine. Biden was at least on the right side of that, Trump is certainly not.
We "caused it"? We "allowed Trump to win"?
I only brought that up because it seemed at that time you were trying to accuse me of not doing enough by asking how many protests I go to.
I'm saying that if you chose not to vote against fascism, it's unfair to blame the people who did for not protesting now that it's way more dangerous and they might be abducted, tortured and deported for doing so.
Had Kamala won there would be much less fear of protesting against her government.
You guys didn't cause it per se, but you still can't seem to agree that a fascist is worse than a neoliberal and I just don't get what's not obvious about that.
Show me 3 examples
No
There ya go. Then I will continue to insist that the abduction and systematic targeting of students and academics on grounds of "wokeness" wasn't happening under Biden.
The Democratic nominee then went on to use terminology usually used in reference to Iran to refer to Israel. “The expansion of Israel and its proxies is an absolute fundamental necessity for the US to have the steady leadership there,” said Walz, while mistakenly referring Israel to Iran.
So the actual argument here is that despite all context, despite the question being about support for Isreal, despite what he said being perfectly cogent and despite his being immediately pulled back from public view by and angry DNC...despite all of this, he must have actually been talking about Iran, because he said 'proxies' and that's a propaganda term we use for Iran, soo...he must have just meant to talk about Iran in this answer about supporting Israel for some reason. That's the actual and only argument of this piece: word association
You must just not have read it, right? There's no way you would link me the war propaganda equivalent of this ..
...if you knew in advance how utterly craven and hollow it was. Or maybe you didn't expect anyone else to read it?
You expect me to believe that Tim Walz was trying to say something that didnt make any fucking sense, and accidentally flubbed his way into saying something that does make sense and lines up with the US government's actual deeds? Furthermore, you expect me to believe this was just a meaningless flub despite the party being so mad about it that they never let him do a speech or debate after that? Be real here, what does Occam's Razor say?
You are praising the fine stitching of the emperor's clothes. I am looking at an imperial penis.
You're so unbelievably stupid to say this, it has to be denial and guilt.
Soulless lib.
Genocide denier
Is that the plan to turn the area into a golf course?
Yes with transvestite Hamas belly dancers as seen in the promotional video.
Is Gaza speaking now?