this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2025
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[–] seeigel@feddit.org -4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (16 children)

What if the government is like Reddit? We move to lemmy to get away from their influence and to have our own values.

Why does this not make sense when it comes to politics? Communities are captured by network effects. It's an uphill battle to make things right if the idiots have to be dragged along.

Even when it comes to racism, let people be racist somewhere. Let them live their miserable life while there is no need to waste resources on making them treat all humans with respect. However, unlike the North after the war, help those who are stuck with them, to get away.

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[–] blackbelt352@lemmy.world 306 points 1 week ago (12 children)

Penn Gilette has always seemed to be driven by a level of honesty and compassion and valued the freedom to choose where to direct that compassion. I think earlier on he viewed other libertarians as having the same level of honest compassion as he does but over time it's become more and more clear that libertarians are overwhelmingly selfish rich white guys who don't want to be called Repuiblicans.

I mean in the early 2000s he was calling bullshit on the hysteria over the vaccine autism link saying the alternative of kids dying to preventable diseases is so much worse. He even gave the tenuous link a benefit of the doubt and accepted that even if they did cause autism,t he alternative is so much worse.

[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 105 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There aren't many people who are willing to evaluate their entire political decisions and come to the conclusion that they were wrong. Even fewer who will admit it publicly. Even fewer still who will accept responsibility and then do something about it.

Of the people I have respectfully disagreed with, the fact that he's come around is a huge testament to his willingness to be humbled and corrected.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 35 points 1 week ago (6 children)

There aren't many people who are willing to evaluate their entire political decisions and come to the conclusion that they were wrong

I doubt that his ideology actually changed much, but instead he just realized that the Libertarian Party didn't actually match it like they claimed to do.

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[–] AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev 56 points 1 week ago (21 children)

he viewed other libertarians as having the same level of honest compassion as he does but over time it’s become more and more clear that libertarians are overwhelmingly selfish rich white guys who don’t want to be called Repuiblicans

I had a similar progression myself when I was in my teens, maybe even early 20s.

The basic principle of libertarianism is appealing: mind your own damn business and I'll mind mine. And I still agree with that in general — it's just that a single generality does not make a complete worldview. It took me a while to realize how common it is for self-identifying libertarians to lack any capacity for nuance. The natural extreme of "libertarianism" is just anarchy and feudalism.

In a sane world, I might still call myself a libertarian. In a sane world, that might mean letting people live their own damn lives, not throwing them to the wolves (or more literally, bears ) and dismantling the government entirely.

I'm all for minding my own business, but I also acknowledge that maintaining a functional society is everybody's business (as much as I occasionally wish I could opt out and go live in a cave).

[–] NABDad@lemmy.world 35 points 1 week ago (1 children)

One problem with libertarianism and the other selfish philosophies is that humanity absolutely cannot survive at all without a massive amount of cooperation.

Assholes who think they can do it on their own are completely delusional.

If you eliminate everything from your life that required the cooperation of another human being, it's likely you're naked, starving, and freezing to death.

"Oh, I can hunt for food.'

Really? With just your bare hands? Maybe your naked ass will get lucky and nail a squirrel with a rock, but what are you going to do when a mountain lion decides you're the squirrel?

Even if you manage to make some rock tools and weapons, you didn't figure that out on your own. Someone told you about it.

Knowledge is the biggest advantage humans have going for them. Without sharing knowledge that others discovered, most people wouldn't last long enough to matter.

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[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yeah, I don't have any problem with libertarianism in theory. Pro-civil liberties, anti-racism, anti-war, pro-choice, pro-guns, free markets, etc. I disagree with the value of some of it, but I can see why someone might thoughtfully and sincerely come to that sort of rationale. I've never really had a problem with Penn's (and Teller's) views because of that.

But the reality is that the majority of modern libertarians are just narcissist capitalists that do not like rules or laws that restrict them from doing anything they want. That or, way worse, they're Ayn Rand ideologues who genuinely believe that self-service is a moral imperative, charity is immoral, poverty is personal failure, human life is measured in productivity, and the sick, poor, or malformed should be left to whatever fate the market gives them. Those types are some of the worst people on the planet. They see a wealthy capitalist as inherently a leader and role model and think he should be unconstrained from accumulating more wealth without concern for society, employees, or individual rights. We're living in the light version of their ideal, and it gets closer to that ideal every day.

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[–] Walican132@lemmy.today 143 points 1 week ago (6 children)

The smartest people in the room are those who are willing to admit a mistake, or that their opinions have changed.

[–] ZoopZeZoop@lemmy.world 35 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The wisest people in the room will be able to do that, but I don't think you have to have had different/the wrong opinion to have that status. The wisest people listen, consider, and use all available information to make the best possible decisions.

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[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 111 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (14 children)

As a big fan of P&T, this is a major win.

Not to mention the veganism which is also closely related to rejecting fascism.

https://vegnews.com/magician-penn-jillette-goes-vegan-for-the-animals

(Full disclosure: I saw an interview where Penn says he went vegan for health and weight loss. But maybe he's evolved to animal liberation as well.)

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[–] klu9@lemmy.ca 105 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Cool to see the meme applied to someone who genuinely went to clown college!

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'll thank you not to refer to Princeton that way.

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[–] itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml 85 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (75 children)

I considered myself a Libertarian for a few years. I was a disillusioned Republican during the George Bush days and Libertarianism really grew on me. I voted for Gary Johnson twice.
As I became more concerned about climate change, I could not see a viable Libertarian solution to it. Private business is more than happy to keep chugging away with fossil fuels until it's far too late.
For Libertarianism to work, these same private businesses need to do the right thing voluntarily. In Atlas Shrugged, those businessmen and women are doing what is right for their business and it just so happens to be what is right for everyone else, that isn't always the case. All too often, what is right for business goes against what is right for society. Once I realized this, everything unraveled for me.
So anyway, here I am, years later, voting for Democrats because I've got no other option as the GOP became more and more insane since I left.

[–] Sibshops@lemm.ee 42 points 1 week ago (13 children)

Anyone who is a libertarian is unfamiliar with game theory. Some problems happen when individual people act in their own self-interest, but the collective outcome is harmful. Climate change is a prime example.

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[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 76 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative" - John Stuart Mill

[–] lobut@lemmy.ca 59 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith


I think Penn went there with a different mindset than those occupying the space now.

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[–] VitoRobles@lemmy.today 51 points 1 week ago (5 children)

South Park guys too.

Politics so bad, you made the comedians who were mocking both sides in the 2000s apologize.

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[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 40 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I got to meet him in Vegas. He was really nice to a nervous nerd. Now I’m even more impressed he has the courage to change his beliefs in public.

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