this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2024
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To vote or not to vote (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 8 months ago by r2stik@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml
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The European Parliament elections are tomorrow* and there’s nobody to vote for. (technically e-voting and pre-voting started on monday, but I always vote on the „correct“ day)

The only mainstream party that doesn’t want war with Russia (or says it doesn’t) is EKRE. However, I don’t want to vote for them. Not only are they very conservative but recently their MEP Jaak Madison was accused of sexually harassing someone.

Another option is KOOS. They, too, are socially conservative but they are the only anti-NATO party. Not much point in voting for them though, polls show KOOS will get less than 2% of votes.

I probably shouldn’t vote at all. Not only is my vote worthless but we only have 7 seats in the European Parliament so it doesn’t matter anyway. I know that bourgeois elections are mostly pointless, it just sucks to see how little my opinion matters.

Sorry, this is mostly a vent post with some links to give y'all context (not very good sources), I just feel alone and nobody IRL understands.

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[–] DankZedong@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Not much point in voting for them though, polls show KOOS will get less than 2% of votes.

I want to highlight something that doesn't get talked about often: besides that this isn't sport and you don't have to pick the 'winning team', getting extra votes can really help a party. Our party got like 5% in the last elections, which is a tiny amount of the total votes of course. But it got us into Parliament. And with that, we received a big amount of money (as in 1 million plus) to further our cause. With that money we could start new regional chapters, set up actions, etc. And now we are looking at a result of over 10% of the votes.

Sometimes choosing smaller parties that fit with your views can help to spread said views too, through monetary benefits and exposure.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

This is really important for people to understand. Thank you for laying this out so clearly! I have been trying to explain this to people in regards to the DKP.

Yes they are probably not going to pass the 5% barrier in any federal elections, but even if they don't it still helps build up the party if they get more votes. And who knows, in regional elections they may actually get a bit of power in a few places if we can build that momentum.

It's not about winning, it's about spreading the message of the party and making the masses aware of their views. A large part of how the liberal bourgeois parties maintain control is by simply keeping the population unaware of the fact that (non-socdem) left wing viewpoints even exist.

[–] r2stik@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 8 months ago

That's a good point, hadn't really considered it from that angle. Thanks for helping me put things into perspective

[–] RedColossus@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 8 months ago

Definitely vote, just vote for whatever the closest thing to a revolutionary party that you can, even if that party is only going to get like 2%, revolution won’t happen via the voting box but there’s a reason that the CIA tries to subvert these parties.

Social democrats can “win” sometimes but their advances are fleeting, look at Sweden, Netherlands, and France to see how quickly their gains can be undone. Hell, even Labour in Britain and the Democratic Party in the US were somewhat respectable social democratic parties in the earlier to mid 20th century. However why would they work to shut down CPUSA (before it was co-opted)? Because it can serve as a barometer for revolutionary sentiment.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Not much point in voting for them though, polls show KOOS will get less than 2% of votes.

This is the wrong way to think about parliamentary elections. Every vote cast for a party that is anti-war decreases the percentage of votes of the pro-war parties and thus their legitimacy.

Ideally you would have a communist party that you could vote for, even if it's a small one which is not likely to get a lot of votes. But if that's not an option a pro-Russian party seems like the least bad choice in the present circumstances.

Liberals always like to talk about the lesser evil, well in this case this is that. You say yourself that they are not going to even get a seat anyway so you won't be doing any real harm nor really endorsing their socially conservative views, but you will still have cast a protest vote against war and against russophobia.

[–] Arlaerion@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not OP, but an important point in some countries:

We got a communist party, but the only party openly pro-russia ist the far right ones. The ones that wish for fascism like in the 'old days'. I know, centrists are not much better, bur voting fot the exact opposite of the communists seems not right.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sounds to me like you don't have a communist party.

[–] Arlaerion@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Im from Austria. The popular opinion here on many things is just plain stupid.

Telling others that china is not as bad as media wants us to believe, or being anti-zionist, or claiming NATO has fucked up so much in Europe will be met with weird reactions, ignorance, aggression or questioning your sanity...

So our communist party is careful in the way they speak...

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

By the way, you don't have to vote for the socdem KPÖ. You have the PdA (Partei der Arbeit) in Austria, which, judging by their publication at least, seems a much more serious and principled ML party. There's also the ISA (Internationale Sozialistische Alternative), though as the name gives away they are Trotskyists and as such have a lot of bad takes on Russia and China.

I'm just saying, there's not just the one "communist" party in most European countries. Usually if you look into it you will find that other smaller ones exist too and they may be more principled and more in line with your values.

Now i don't know whether these two which i mentioned are on the ballot in this EU election given that both of these parties are much smaller than the KPÖ, but you should be aware that usually there are alternatives.

[–] Arlaerion@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 8 months ago

Thank you! They have not been on the ballot, but I'll check it out.

For now i did vote, but after some studying I'm not so sure anymore if I want to support this system.

I thought: Support the KPÖ, they're the most left we have on the ballot. The chance that people actually see what the left (although liberal) is about. And maybe they can easier be convinced to read more on socialism/communism.

But after reading that seems reformative and even damaging the revolutionary part of ML.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Im from Austria.

Ah yes, i know the KPÖ. They are "eurocommunists". They associate with the "Party of the European Left" at the EU level. This puts them firmly in the camp of pro-EU social democrats. They are fully on board the anti-Russia bandwagon on the Ukraine issue.

So our communist party is careful in the way they speak...

So they are opportunists tailing the liberal mainstream consensus.

They have made a conscious choice to fall in line. That is the price many of these kinds of parties believe they have to pay in order to be allowed a seat at the table. They do what they think they have to do in order to be allowed to acquire political power in the bourgeois system.

The only thing i can say about that has already been said by comrade Vladimir Ilyich:

"We are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire. We have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy, and not of retreating into the neighbouring marsh, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road! Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!"

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 8 months ago

It doesn’t seem like any party represents your views. Even if you were a liberal in a liberal democracy, why would you vote?

[–] ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 8 months ago

dont just vote, convince your friends to vote with you for a third party that represents your interests; even better if you join a union and do similar.

[–] ledlecreeper27@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Aren’t EKRE Estonian nationalists? I’m surprised they wouldn’t want to go to war with Russia.

[–] SadArtemis@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 8 months ago

Sounds like they're "sensible" nationalists at least, then- the kinds who presumably can recognize that plunging Europe into WW3 with their much larger, nuclear-armed neighbor is a terrible idea for their nation, and has a good chance of making Estonian a language only spoken in hell.

It's a measure of common sense that- for all that their politics are no doubt disgusting otherwise- is pleasantly refreshing, due to how rare it is and how low the bar has gotten across the west.

[–] Amir@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago

If you don't have anything to vote for, vote against the party you want to win least...

[–] 666@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 8 months ago

If you're going to vote; vote for the only local party that represents you. DankZedong made a wonderful point below and for Americans the same thing applies except with state legislature. Plus you get to feel smug owning both the libs and chuds by being a "USELESS 3RD PARTY VOTE!!!" when you're actually giving support to a party that represents you.