this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025
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God damnit. For real?
Oh, we have “Marxists”.
Meng Xiaosu (孟晓苏), the father of property market in China, was famous for saying that “the end goal for Marx‘s ideal is not the maximization of public ownership, but the maximization of personal ownership” and used the argument to support the creation of housing market that ultimately causes reckless speculation and further wealth inequality.
There are many “Marxists” throughout history who would dig into famous works to find quotations to “legitimize” their policies.
For example, back in 1980, when trying to circumvent the national law that forbids land sale to private owners, Luo Jinxing (骆锦星) who was the Deputy Chief o the Shenzhen Property Management Bureau at the time, dug into Chapter 4 of Lenin’s State and Revolution, in which Lenin quoted Engels’s The Housing Question (1872) to justify that land sale is actually permitted during a “transitional period”:
When Luo reported this to the Municipal Council Secretary Zhang Xunfu (张勋甫), the latter added a quote from the Communist Manifesto to support their claims:
With the nodding approval of Marx, Engels and Lenin, it is now justifiable for the government to sell land to private owners lol.
We have this kind of “Marxists”. In fact, many such cases.
the kind Vladimir Ilyich would have shot everbody
To me he sounds opportunist with his continual references to expanding the "socialist" market economy (which walks and talks like capitalist commodity production). If he is a Marxist, why is he not openly criticizing these bourgeois economists in China that @xiaohongshu@hexbear.net mentioned and emphasizing a return to broader study of Marxist political economy?
On the Governance of China, p. 87 of the English Translation
Ibid., p. 134
Ibid., p. 149
(I credit this essay with making me aware of these statements: Against Dengism by The Red Spectre.)
This article's pretty garbo. It relies entirely on quotes from Lenin and Stalin rather than any actual materialist, data-driven analysis. The argumentation is pathetic across the board and simply dismisses any positions it doesn't like as "non-Marxist". Statements like this:
This is pure idealism. Capital is not god, it does not exist above reality, it does not wield infinite power - it too is subject to the rules and dynamics of the society it exists within.
It is not a revelation that China uses capitalist systems. A tiny number of decontextualized quotes from Xi hardly proves anything. The Governance of China is filled with quotes advocating for the long struggle to communism, against revisionist and reformist tendencies within the party, and demands for ideological struggle within the party ala Combat Liberalism against bad party cadre derailing the project. You should actually give it a read and you'll see a a comrade with a deep, practical understanding of Marxism. Here's an example:
And here's Xi on Stalin and the USSR:
But again, those are just quotes from a guy. We are dialectical materialists, and therefore we must look at material conditions and systems in practice.
It does neither of those things. The results of the Chinese economic system since reform and opening up are unlike the achievements of any capitalist country or economy in history. The CPC continues in their five year plans and other plans to lay out a slow, sensible path in building socialism and, with great consistency, meets and exceeds the goals of those plans in objective, measurable terms. While your article above argues that planning is impossible with the existence of private capital, China has successfully carried out almost every single effort of its plans through the domination of private capital by the CPC and state economy.
Your article simply says that the poverty reduction is irrelevant, that it doesn't matter, who cares. Again, idealism - the objective of socialism is the elimination of deprivation and exploitation through the construction of a commonly held, democratic economy. China has made obvious objective progress towards that outcome. The #1 desire of the Chinese people was the alleviation of their wretched poverty. This has been achieved in one sense, the absolute sense, but many Chinese still live in relative poverty - their basic needs are secured, but the opportunity to live comfortable, leisurely lives does not yet exist across the board. For a country of such gargantuan scale, that is a long, arduous process. The dismissal of its necessity is ultraleftist/anarchist impatience and idealism.
It is exactly when this enormous project of absolute poverty elimination was completed that we see the start of a decline in capitalist power within China. See this: https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2024/chinas-private-sector-has-lost-ground-state-sector-has-gained-share-among.
well now i feel obligated to link Ian Wright's essay Marx on Capital as a Real God lol. regardless i dont think they are wrong here actually, i agree that given enough time that capital will eventually crush the CPC if they dont destroy it first sometime in the future, but they also put forth no argument about how long this proccess takes and from what i remember of that article nothing truly convincing was ever given aside from rent section
If you look at Xi’s career history, he’s always been a moderate.
Back in 2007, when the Party Secretary of Shanghai, Chen Liangyu was opposing the central government’s order (Hu-Wen administration) to curb spending, there was a call to rebel with the Southeast Five Provinces. Xi (who was Party Secretary of Zhejiang at the time) chose the moderate stance of maintaining neutrality with both sides.
After Chen was toppled, Han Zheng became the acting party chief for a few months before the position of the Party Secretary of Shanghai went to Xi. That’s how Xi’s moderate stance got him the Shanghai position, a very important position before being promoted to the national leadership role.
By the way, Han Zheng was the one who attended Trump’s inauguration this year and led the negotiations with the US lol.
Also, Bo Xilai - who was initially groomed to be the party successor - was a lot more left than Xi, until the scandal that also toppled him and paved the way for Xi’s ascent to party leadership.
Is that true relative to where the party was before he took over?
Also, are there any indications about Xi's successor? Obviously he's got time in the role still to go, but he's also quite old. Is that sort of thing obvious, opaque, too hard to determine in advance?
As always, appreciate your insight into the CPC's operations.
Well, Xi intended to curb private capital and I have given him the credit and defended him many times.
However, he is also responsible for some of the biggest misallocation of capital in the world’s history. The Monetization of Shantytown Redevelopment in 2015 (棚改货币化) will go down in history as the culprit for perhaps the most frenzied speculation in property market, where so much wealth were sucked into the real estate sector and would never be recovered. It is one of the reasons why the local governments are so heavily indebted at the moment, and why we have a potentially serious deflation problem that if not resolved, could easily spread to various other sectors.
The lack of central planning was palpable. They always wait until the last minute before taking action, and often times it is too little too late. It is very clear that the central government has lost the ability to curb the authority and recklessness of the local/provincial/municipal governments. Just look at how Shanghai openly defied Zero Covid and allowed three years of national effort to be wasted.
Which is why I always laugh when people say China has some super long-term plan to achieve this or that. The opposite is true! China has some truly incredible crisis management skills that have so far prevented a deep crisis from erupting, and this is truly impressive if you understand what they did. However, without resolving the fundamental issues, it is simply kicking the can down the road. A complete revamp of the system is required and no amount of macro/micromanagement policy adjustments can allow you to escape that.
By the way, the promise to curb private capital has been overturned recently. I am VERY neutral about Xi right now. All I can see are the libs in charge these days.
sounds like dooming to me