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Unfortunately, if you're seriously interested, I can give you a long list of examples from pre-election arguments I had with people.
Wait what the shit? I wanna see that.
https://lemmy.world/comment/14674367
https://lemmy.world/post/12247352/7775795
https://lemmy.world/post/21302719/13116088
https://lemmy.world/post/21302719/13108379
https://lemmy.world/post/20205865/12584685
https://lemmy.world/post/20720227/12824714
https://lemmy.world/post/20720227/12824370
My blood pressure is rising looking back through them, and Lemmy.world having its first outages in two weeks isn't helping me search, so I'll leave it here.
Some of these are pretty insane, but some also make sense (especially without the benefit of hindsight). "Nobody is saved by electoral politics" for example is, well... that's exactly what happened.
"Nobody is saved by electoral politics" pretty clearly implies "Nobody can be saved by electoral politics, by the nature of electoral politics in this society", not "Nobody will be saved by electoral politics in this election, because I believe firmly in the inevitable victory of the immeasurably worse candidate to win by 2% of the vote"
As someone who's been predicting Harris would lose since August, both are true. Also rather than "in this society" it's "everywhere". The way I like to put it is that electoral politics is only the victory lap; you go out and do activism work, build a base of support, spread your ideas, create a movement, negotiate with or (metaphorically or literally) come to blows with the establishment and finally ask people to vote for you or your ideas in the election. So with that in mind, nobody anywhere is saved by electoral politics alone because whether you win or lose in the election hinges on doing the actual hard work before and during campaign season. And if you want to ask "do I need to do all this when my idea is that I want to stop fascism", the answer is I think quite demonstrably yes.
... not unless you think that the election of Harris would have resulted in the same scenario we're facing now?
That's generally not what people mean when they say 'electoral politics' though. When they say 'electoral politics', they are generally talking about the entirety of electoral politics, not just election day. "You will never destroy the master's house with the master's tools" is how they usually put it. They are not advocating for a more robust participation in bourgeois democracy, they are advocating for revolutionary action and, quite explicitly, the total rejection and nonparticipation in civic affairs under current government structures.
The non-insane version is 'harm reduction', wherein participation in bourgeois democracy is permissible so long as you don't confuse it for an end goal or a primary means.
I know. I said ask people to vote for you because that's the most relevant here, but there are other options for the victory lap, like a general strike, extended mass demonstrations, etc etc. I called it the victory lap for a reason; whether you decide to take it in the ballot box or the streets is a matter of tactics (though in this case I'd say the ballot box was the better option). At least how I think of it is that if you consider electoral politics your primary battlefield you will lose, as the primary battlefield is and will always be the hearts, minds and fucks to give of the people, but there's no reason to not use them to seal the deal if you can.
As someone with limited exposure to leftists outside the Fediverse I can't confirm or deny that statement, so I guess I'll just take it with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that there's room for nuance between unquestioning participation in the system and unquestioning denial of the system.
As noted in the last-moment edit I slipped in, hoping to get it done before anyone read the comment, the non-insane (and much more widespread) version is harm reduction.
Here on the Fediverse, MLs and fellow-travelers of that sort are much more widespread than IRL, and they tend towards more... uncompromising positions. At least when their least-favorite bourgeois democracies are concerned.
Okay I just now realized that my instance doesn't federate with the tankie triad and that's why I don't see most of the insane stuff. Carry on with your day.