MudMan

I feel like this conversation does a very good job of explaining why FOSS alternatives so often have terrible usability. "Not how most people would do it in a selfhost environment" is effectively "not how a tiny, teensy, borderline irrelevant proportion of users would do it".

Selfhosting is moving towards being accessible to the average user in some areas. Not coincidentally, I suspect, mostly in areas where someone is trying to make money on the side (see Home Assistant increasingly trying to upsell you into their cloud subscription and branded hardware, for instance). This idea that structuring the software for the average phone user as opposed to the average home server admin is "bad" or "complicated" is baffling to me.

Oh, and for the record, no, that's not the line for legality when it comes to watching the media I own. I am perfectly within my rights to access the files in my hard drive in any way I want. At least where I live. I make no promises for whatever dystopian crap is legal in the US. If anything there is a gray area on my using a specific type of drive to be able to rip commercial optical media that is theoretically DRMd in ways that my drive just happens to ignore. But accessing my legal backups in my local storage? Nah, even if I was more worried about piracy than I am I'd feel fine on those grounds.

But also, copyright as currently designed is broken and not fit for purpose, and I suspect you don't disagree and your pearl clutching here may have more to do with disliking Plex and not wanting to acknowledge an actually useful feature they provide than anything else. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

I am very confused here. You seem to have slipped from arguing that it was difficult and complicated to arguing that it's bad to be able to share content remotely because it's a felony, which seems like a pretty big leap.

For one thing, it's not illegal and I do rip my own media. I will access it from my phone or my laptop remotely whenever I want, thank you very much.

For another, and this has been my question all along, how is it possibly more difficult and complicated to have remote access ready to go than being "a DNS record away"? Most end users don't even know what a DNS is.

And yes, not having (obvious) server configurations up front is transparent. That's what I'm saying. It does mix at least two sources (their unavoidable, rather intrusive free streaming TV stuff and your library), but it doesn't demand that you set it up. The entire idea is to not have to worry about whether it's local content. Like I said, there are edge cases where that can lead to a subpar experience (mainly when it's downsampling your stuff to route it the long way around without telling you), but from a UX perspective I do get prioritizing serving you the content over warning you of networking issues.

I don't know, man, I'm not saying you shouldn't prefer Jellyfin. I wouldn't know, I never used it long enough to have a particularly strong opinion. I just don't get this approach where having the thing NOT surface a bunch of technical stuff up front reads as "complicated and difficult". I just get hung up on that.

Okay, but... how is it confusing from the front end if what you're doing is going through the same steps of creating an account? You punch in a login and password in both.

Sure, Plex is doing this extra thing where it's also bringing in centralized content along with your library and it will default to its remote access system if you log in from outside your network. But again, from the front-end that is transparent. You log in and you have your library. If anything they're being a bit too transparent, I've had times where networking stuff got in the way and it took me a minute to notice that Plex was routing my library through their remote access system instead.

I can see objections to it working that way, you trade a (frankly super convenient) way to share content remotely and access content from outside your network without too much hassle for... well, going through someone else's server and having their content sitting alongside yours. But "confusing and difficult" isn't how I'd describe it. It seems to work like any other service, self-hosted or not, as far as the user-facing portions are concerned. I guess I just don't see the confusing part there.

On the plus side, if the update works there is a good automated backup system now, so it won't be an issue again, I suppose.

Wait, isn't Jellyfin the same way? Pretty much every self-hosted app I run uses some web interface you log into so you can use it anywhere on the network. Sure, Plex also has some pre-set remote connection thing, but from the end user perspective it's the same set of steps. I also had to make a login for all the stuff I fully self-host.

Is there no account management on Jellyfin? I would probably want that as a feature.

Sure, but it's one thing to take the concept of a heist movie with cool popular guys and repurpose it as a vehicle for the current batch of cool popular guys and another to do a follow up about how the cool popular guys are all old and tired now.

It's different layers, even discounting the fact that Soderbergh adapting Traffic or remaking Ocean's is very much a different exercise than modern IP rehashes or reboots.

I barely even remember what the specific dealbreaker was, honestly. I was just dabbling, considering expanding my NAS and maybe getting the gear to dump my 4K BluRays. I gave Jellyfin a try first, I went through the setup process and I remember it being a) confusing to set up directly on my NAS, and b) very ugly.

I gave Plex a try to cover my bases and that looked better and got me up and running faster, so I just stuck with it. Easier remote access was a feature for me there, too, but the choice was made purely on the onboarding process, there was nothing activist to it. It's maybe the most user-level, unresearched decision I've taken on software in a while, honestly. I was already trying to figuring out the ripping and encoding at the same time, so I didn't want to put any additional attention on library management.

If anything I gave Jellyfin a bit more of a chance than I otherwise would have because I had heard a lot of angry chatter from people about Plex. I guess I came in after they made the changes that pissed people off and didn't mind the state of the current product without a frame of reference. I would have bailed if there was a subscription, but they do have a one-and-done purchase, so now I'm set up, it's working and I've paid them as much as I'm going to, so I'm fine with it. I do appreciate a free alternative existing, though.

I didn't finish it and I've been meaning to go back to it, but the time I spent with it was pretty nice. You can't deny the sheer balls in making a AAA accurate walking sim.

Anon needs to go back and watch some David Lynch, because man, is that second paragraph weirdly on point.

I went back to catch up with Twin Peaks The Return after he passed and... look, it's awesome and hilarious, but... yeah, that fits.

We already miss this era, which is sort of the point. The question is whether reviving it and making it about how we are no longer in that era and everybody from it is dead or sad about being old takes us back to it or further away from it.

Not the UI, the UX. The UI may be editable, but if I have to make my own UI to be happy with what it looks like or works like, then that's bad UX.

I get that sometimes those terms are used interchangeably, but they're not the same.

Should I swap Audible for Steam and start another flame war? Is there a poll widget on this thing?