DualPad

joined 2 years ago
[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 1 points 2 months ago

I think Valve won't deliver for touchpad primary users. Just not possible to fit in 40mm circular touchpads and an additional dpad and joystick without making the controller comically larger. Even smaller touchpads end up compromised to accommodate the comfort of dpad and facebutton access for joystick users. Controller would need to go modular which I highly doubt Valve would do.

There's been proposals from dual touchpad users to try to accommodate dual joysticks with joystick in place of where the facebuttons are on the Steam Controller, and facebuttons located in an arrangement similar to the chell prototype.

But dual joystick users are generally unwilling to compromise not only on the joysticks, but also the traditional diamond cluster facebuttons too. Touchpad users are so desperate they'd probably jump at the chance to get a controller that only had 40mm circular touchpad with a design meant for primary usage even if it didn't have any face buttons.

So best case scenario for dualpad users at this point is hoping a standalone gyro module comes out that can be stuck onto any controller so at least the gyro experience is upgraded for them. Alpakka standalone gyro would be a dream. Or the Steam Deck controller has touchpads connected by long flexible cables so a 3d printed shell that moves the touchpads into a better position could be used. Or by some magic it could be replaced with 40mm cirque glidepoint circle touchpads.

I grew up using xbox, playstation, and nintendo controllers too and 360 was my main controller on the PC until the Steam Controller came out and I became sold by this gyro touchpad demo that blew me away because I was amazed by how fast the camera was whipped around along with use of gyro in place of aim assist. Been using joystick controllers all my life so experienced with both, and I never felt lacking when it came to joystick controller options as I do for dual touchpad options which is why I'm not much excited by another joystick centric controller even if it throws in touchpads that are just slightly better than the dualsense.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 1 points 2 months ago

On the Steam Controller I use the touchpads for

With all the swiping and clicking I do in combination with the back button usage the touchpad placement led to putting strain on my hands. I don't feel that discomfort with the joysticks, which feel comfortable in its placement and reachability of all the inputs around it.

And the 180 consistency I have hard time replicating with my natural swipe pattern despite adjusting the rotation in Steam Input, so I have to do corner to corner swipes due to Valve going with a square over a circle. The layout is one where I'm having to force my hand out of what would naturally feel comfortable.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I would be so happy if that happened, but I think Valve has moved away from touchpad centric layouts. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't touchpad enthusiasts involved

There's little signs here and there with the placement and shape, but also signs that people at Valve don't use stuff like dpad modeshift with an inverted outering bind for 5 click inputs over the default 1 click that long time Steam Controllers love. With the biggest sign coming from not separating soft press and regular click for the touchpads in the new Steam Input.

Leading to having to use stuff like action layers on the Deck because regular click pressure can't be set without soft press to set up the touchpad for 5 click functions. Not ideal with how action layers can sometimes get stuck between layers. https://imgur.com/a/b1wyHEK

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Checking the configs I have uploaded and another game I have is Spin Rhythm XD if you have it. It's named "Pad and Gyro for Steam Controller" in the community config. The gyro is set to activate on right pad touch, but I recommend switching it to always on.

I might go and upload my left 4 dead 2 config too when I have time since that's a game lot of people have. You may need to lower the gyro sensitivity if you aren't used to using it.

The configs people come up with can be really unique from user to user which is why the ones who came to like the Steam Controller have a really hard time finding a controller that matches the functionality they become used to. Since the usual default console controller experience doesn't do it for them anymore.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, I find the controller disappointing as a Steam Controller user because I want a new touchpad centric controller for updated gyro with the old one not feeling smooth for high refresh rate displays.

The approach they went with is one that satisfies joystick users who aren't really lacking for options when it comes to joystick controllers, but disappointing for the few half dozen users who main the touchpads and have only the option of the discontinued Steam Controller. The Deck pads were a let down for me with the ergonomics, placement, size, and shape so they didn't end up being a good touchpad successor for my use case opting for the joysticks when I use the Deck.

I'm not surprised with the more mainstream direction they went. Just disappointed but I expected to be disappointed.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I use the Steam Controller for games like Doom Eternal, Left 4 Dead 2, Spin Rhythm XD, The Finals, etc.

Using steam input is a requirement to get the most out of it.

This is my basic approach for most games.

  • Mapping mouse to touchpad and adjusting sensitivity to 180
  • Mapping mouse (beta) to gyro and adjusting sensitivity until 90 degree turn of the controller turns in game camera 675 degrees for first person/450 for third person
  • Setting up a dpad modeshift on right touchpad click and inverting outer ring so I can set the touchoutput 5 different actions depending on if I click up, down, left, right, center as opposed to only a solitary single click action. If I need more I set up a chord so holding left grip shifts the same actions into another set of 5 inputs. I got for Dead Zone: 181919 and Outer Ring Binding Radius: 16750 when it comes to values in the new Steam Input.
  • Setting movement to left pad and and setting an outer ring sprint bind on it and mapping crouch/slide/dash actions on click

I saved the template for gamepad bindings for games that support mixed input and full mouse and keyboard for ones I don't. So I don't have to go through the whole thing all the time. I just apply my template and then just switch the bindings around and adjust the sensitivity.

If you want to try out a config I have one uploaded for the Finals called "dualpad with gyro update..." Some changes you'll want to make to the settings is Mouse sensitivity to 20, mouse focal length sensitivity 106, swap ping and emote in game, change sprint and crouch to hold, and obviously turn off aim assist. Holding the right start buttons switches into an action set I use when playing light where left grip is crouch as opposed to a chord modifier like in the default and left pad click is for dashing and grappling. Default action set clicking the left pad is crouch/slide and left grip changing the right pad clicks to gadget switching.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 19 points 2 months ago (4 children)

I love my Steam Controller. I still use it majority of the time over my playstation, nintendo, and xbox controllers because of the touchpads.

But, I didn't like using the touchpads on the Deck because of the size, shape, and orientation making it a regression for maining the touchpads for the games I play. So not surprised by the leak, since Valve would obviously be better off focusing on making the ergonomics better for joystick users than touchpad users. Still let down because it'll mean for touchpad focused users like me Steam Controller is the only touchpad centric controller on the market with great ergonomics, size with 40mm concave pads, and circular shape for more consistent swipes.

But, it is discontinued and the gyro feels aged compared to the options out there. Will still be using it though from the looks of it for years to come hoping for an eventual dual pad centric controller from some niche group.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's probably more due to not knowing how to use it and just going with whatever random config was applied. It's not a controller for people who aren't used to controller remappers and just wanted it to function like a xbox controller.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I use the Steam Controller still for games like Doom Eternal, Left 4 Dead 2, Spin Rhythm XD, The Finals, etc.

Basically any first or third person game that has aiming, but I am not sold on the Deck touchpads as primary inputs. Tried it and didn't like it. Found them uncomfortable, size too small, and shape resulting in inconsistent swipes as someone who likes to target a consistent 180 on an edge to edge swipe.

So it will be a good controller for dual joystick users who occasionally want to use the touchpads, but not a good follow up to Steam Controller users who wanted a new controller to use the touchpads for a majority of their games.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 3 points 3 months ago

Yeah, I've been playing lot of 2d platformers on my Deck or button mashers like the Yakuza collection where I'm less likely to miss touchpads.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 3 points 3 months ago

One of the things noticed when trying to set up an edge to edge swipe output a 180 was how inconsistent it turned out to be unless I changed the rotational angle to be corner to corner. Which is even less ergonomic than swiping naturally. Smaller surface area probably made the 180 less consistent too with how much further the camera moves with small movements.

[–] DualPad@lemmy.one 3 points 3 months ago

I use dual touchpads for games like Doom Eternal, Left 4 Dead 2, Spin Rhythm XD, The Finals, etc.

 

I am a fan of using dual touchpads on the Steam Controller, but could not get comfortable with using the Steam Deck in the same fashion due to the touchpad placement.

Anyone try these grips?

 

What I'm attempting to set up is having the Deck touchpads have different inputs depending on where I click as shown in this video 60 seconds in with the Steam Controller. So for example ← reload ↑ flash light → pills ↓medkit ㋛ melee when you click but when not clicking the touchpad can provide camera controls. I do this because I don't feel like reaching to XYAB and losing camera controls. Or if I'm doing movement having center click be a crouch, but the outer clicks be dodges.

I use something called modeshifts on the Steam Controller, but the Deck touchpads requires too hard of a press to activate for my liking with no pressure adjustment available for modeshift clicks.

There is touch menus, but when I'm using the pad as a mouse I found clicking to activate the touch menu added a delay I didn't want for actions like melee or reload, or abilities like casting fire. So I settled on Action Layers with the absence of modeshifts.

START OF GUIDE

STEP 1 Apply Action Layer on click

Create an Action Set Layer. In this example I named it dpad click and set it to Apply action layer on click.

If you need help making an Action Layer this person's video is good 60 seconds in.

STEP 2

On the action layer 'dpad click' bind whatever you want to the dpad and the outer ring command (this will be center click)

Set up a release press on a click so the action layer is removed automatically so you return to your default layer.

STEP 3

Invert Outer Ring so that it can function as a center click. Now touchpad click has 5 click functions instead of 1.

You are going to need to play around with the Deadzone and Outer Ring settings to see what you like. But, gist of what it does is

  • Deadzone: (where simultaneous press stops, i do around 26380)

  • Outer Ring : (how big center click is, I do around 32000)

 

Moving with left touchpad. Clicking pad to dodge.

Gyro activated only when I touch the right touchpad, and modeshift set up on the right touchpad so I can switch between 5 weapons when I hold the left grip. Holding left grip also changes the XYAB buttons to the rest of the other weapons.

When left grip isn't held touchpad clicks have some XYAB and dpad functions binded to them. I click middle to melee, and other corner clicks to swap mods, etc.

So I always have movement controls, and only move away from camera when I select other weapons or items that aren't on my touchpad. And when I do that I hold left grip, which activates gyro so I can keep aiming.

 

When I did this I had gyro set to activate on touch. Since then I've gone to always on for this game.

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