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I'll be voting yes, if for no other reason than to encourage more referendums.
I think its insane that we need to vote people in to vote for us, who are statistically more likely to be psychopaths. The majority of Australians think weed should be legal, but it still isn't.
Giving people the power to vote on specific issues bypasses the bureaucratic bullshit.
"Oh no, it might open the door to more changes to the constitution" GOOD
California has a proposition voting thing. It sounds like a good idea but it has caused them problems. A lot of it is in the wording of the proposition and omitting any negative consequences. For example, people might vote for less property taxes without realising that means less money to fund schools etc. Everything is a trade off and it's hard to convey that to the general population.
Very, very sick of the no campaign brigading every discussion with terrible arguments in bad faith.
I have yet to encounter a legal expert, or for that matter, an Indigenous Australian who is accepted by their community, who is opposed. Similarly, the law is my degree. I've spent five years of my life studying it, and although I'm not a graduate yet (two units to go), I'd think I'd know more about this shit than Joe from bumfuck nowhere on Facebook.
There is no case for a no vote. None whatsoever. The change would not grant special rights to Indigenous Australians. It has been repeatedly explained by both lawyers and politicians. You can read the change yourself. It has to be a constitutional change, because that protects it from being outright removed by successive governments, which is the very thing that happened to the previous body that performed this role. By definition, it is not racist, as racism refers to negative treatment on the basis of race or ethnic background, and not differing treatment. This is one of three steps proposed by Indigenous Australians towards reconciliation, and isn't the endpoint. If it fails, it will be the endpoint.
When the colonisers arrived, Indigenous Australians outnumbered colonisers. Now, they make up just 2.5% of the population. We are driving them to extinction. If this fails, by the time we get around to trying again, it is likely the genocide will have all but been completed.
Ethically and morally, a yes vote is the only choice. Legally, it is the best choice for change.
One thing that aggravates my parents (definite No voters) is that there is no acknowledgement from the Yes campaign of the internal failures of previous bodies like ATSIC. It's fair to state that the government dismantled bodies like ATSIC, but the Yes campaign seem to be deliberately hiding or ignoring the fraud, corruption, ineffectiveness, and nepotism that existed in these organisations.
One can read all about the structural problems, lack of accountability, and failure to deliver results that were detailed in the parliamentary findings on ATSIC. https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Former_Committees/indigenousaffairs/report/final/c02
If you have library access, the 2003 report, In the Hand of the Regions, is also worth a read: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26479564
There were also criminal investigations launched into both the Chief of ATSIC, Geoff Clark, and the deputy chairman, "Sugar" Ray Robinson.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11071533/Geoff-Clark-ex-ATSIC-chief-facing-2million-fraud-charges-threatens-senator-Jacinta-Price.html
https://www.smh.com.au/national/former-atsic-leader-sugar-ray-in-court-20060118-gdmsov.html
For No voters like my parents, they question why we should force a similar organisation into the Constitution, particularly when there were so many systemic (and even criminal) problems with ATSIC.
In all honesty, having read those same reports in the past (does it make me a weirdo that I enjoy reading this kind of thing?) I note that many of the individuals involved in this corruption were installed by LNP governments (tempted to say "of future past," because that just sounds fun). I smell false flag on their part, as they have been known to install cronies into organisations they're opposed to so they can tear it down and claim they're 'fixing' them
The corruption happened because they were given a budget with no oversight. The Voice is only an advisory body with no budget to control.
I'd honestly ask them what the fuck that has to do with enshrining Indigenous representation in parliament tbh.
Oh no a govt body was corrupt!!! Do they want to remove the ability for all Australians to vote because of robodebt? Because that makes as much fcking sense.
Agreed. One of my family members worked for ATSIC from the beginning, wanting to do good. They resigned in disgust at the corruption before it was exposed and torn down. It's an ugly bit of history that is being ignored.
I’ll be voting Yes.
For those wanting more clarity, what do you mean? We have been given the proposed alteration to the constitution:
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia: 1.There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice; 2.The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples; 3.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
Wanting more clarity is just a case of people trying to find a reason to vote no.
Not necessarily, I'm grateful for more clarity. Voting yes without any clarity is no better than voting no without any clarity.
RIKSY
UNKOWN
DIVISIVE
PERMANENT
You can tell you should be worried because they use scary words and CAPITAL LETTERS. I also love how they put "it opens the door to activists" like it's a bad thing. Personally I wouldn't mind if Australia Day were replaced with a Treaty Day if that came to pass. It's just an excuse to get absolutely pissed around a barbie anyway.
I have yet to see a single rational reason to vote no. I just don't get it. How could you possibly be against consulting people before you make decisions that affect those people?
Do the No voters think that the government shouldn't listen to the AMA when making health policy? That they shouldn't listen to teachers and principals when they make education policy?
I think some of the "No" reasons are valid questions to ask, so simply brushing them off as irrational is not going to win over anyone sitting on the fence. When I have spoken with family & friends, some of their uncertainty and concerns can be found amongst the ten No arguments.
For example, the question of inequitable representation (point #3 of the No arguments) is a fair one. Shouldn't all Australians, regardless of their gender, race, or ancestry be represented equally in the Constitution?
In 1962, all Indigenous Australians were given the fair right to vote, giving them the same level of voice and representation as that of any Australian citizen. This resolved the issue of equal voting rights, which allows all Australians to have their voice equally represented in parliament. The Voice would now add an additional representation above what voting provides to the average Australian and it will be mandated in the Constitution.
Which personal factors determine if one can be awarded this additional amount of representation? Do you have to prove you are Indigenous by way of a blood test, a written exam, a form of ID, or just by stating that you identify as an Indigenous Australian? I even know of some people who have claimed benefits of Indigenous Australians (e.g. scholarships) when they themselves were Pacific Islander. How pure does your bloodline need to be in order to receive additional representation?
Your argument is driven by racism. The same old tired racist arguments that have been floating around since time immemorial.
“People are just claiming they are Aboriginal to get government handouts”
“They’re not really asylum seekers they are economic migrants looking for government handouts”
“They are going to create a new level of government so they can claim government handouts”
They are not getting inequitable representation. They are effectively being given a constitutionally recognised lobby group. The Government of the day will be able to completely ignore them like they ignore climate scientists and environmentalists.
Ok yes. “But then why does it need to be in the constitution” because the Coalition disbanded every non constitutionally recognised group that has ever been created.
The Government of the day will be able to completely ignore them like they ignore climate scientists and environmentalists.
This is how it is supposed to be. They're ignored, but so is everyone else. We all wish that the government would only listen and act on our preferences and beliefs, but the system is designed so that every Australian citizen receives one vote to elect their preferred representative and we must engage with that elected representative to guide parliament.
There are always going to be lobbyists, special groups, or even corruption that interfere with this system, but these are issues that can be managed by legislation and government processes. Indigenous Australians already have The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA), employing 1,023 full time staff and a budget of $285M each year specifically for the purpose to "lead and influence change across government to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have a say in the decisions that affect them."
Regardless of race or ancestry, let's all be ignored by government equally.
So lame when legitimate points are dismissed as 'racism'. It is absolutely possible to make these arguments, not all of which I even agree with, or present these issues, without having a racist intent.
I was hoping the level of discourse would be better here, sadly it's just /r/Australia2
I have absolutely no problem with the traditional indigenous owners of the land, who have never ceded sovereignty, having a special status in the constitution.
Because why the hell not?
Just a friendly reminder to keep discussions civil and respectful. It is important that we share a wide variety of opinions and debate around the topic is important. When responding to people who differ in opinion to you it is important not to respond with aggression or name-calling as it discourages these important conversations. If you notice the conversation getting off track please make a report so action can be taken if necessary.
Those looking for detail will be disappointed. These pamphlets don’t provide clarity either way. I don’t think it’s the fault of the aec, but rather how something like this is inserted into the constitution.