I don't understand how anyone in their clear mind could think that treating electric mopeds like bicycles was a good idea in the first place.
this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2025
104 points (98.1% liked)
Europe
6703 readers
705 users here now
News and information from Europe ๐ช๐บ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
- Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Posts that link to the following sources will be removed
- on any topic: Al Mayadeen, brusselssignal:eu, citjourno:com, europesays:com, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Fox, GB News, geo-trends:eu, news-pravda:com, OAN, RT, sociable:co, any AI slop sites (when in doubt please look for a credible imprint/about page), change:org (for privacy reasons)
- on Middle-East topics: Al Jazeera
- on Hungary: Euronews
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
Ban lengths, etc.
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
And to put the power value of 800 Watt in relation: An average human is unlikely to go with more than 150 Watt over a sustained period. If you put this into this web computer:
http://kreuzotter.de/deutsch/speed.htm
http://kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
you get a speed of 27 km/h for a road bike. If you put 800 Watt in for such a bike, you get a speed of 49 km/h (which in Germany is the general inside-village speed limit which is anachronistically high, and is slowly being replaced by 30 km/h where you have bicycles, pedestrisns, or schools).
That also means that an e-bike with 800 Watt power is actually a light motorcycle, with all the associated risks.
While I don't think high-wattage e-bike motors are necessarily defensible, where you get mileage out of a higher wattage motor on an e-bike is when going uphill. These motors are already legally required to stop outputting at 25 km/h, and going 25 km/h uphill requires quite a lot of energy to do.
load more comments
(18 replies)
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am once again asking the question: Why don't cars have built-in speed regulators?
There's constant chatter about the potential risks associated with the rise in e-bikes, but little to no mention of regulating the existing menace. You want to talk about excessive power? Look no further.
There's constant chatter about the potential risks associated with the rise in e-bikes, but little to no mention of regulating the existing menace. You want to talk about excessive power?
Of course this is worked on, it is an EU goal to reduce traffic deaths to zero - for example with speed limits for cars:
It's even harder with cars: Why are cars even allowed to go 240km/h? Yeah, there is the german autobahn, but there's no reason why a car which is registered in France should be able to go faster than the french max motorway speed limit. There is also no reason to allow cars to be able to go from 0 to 100 in x seconds. There is no use case for that, even if you try to merge into a motorway or overtake somewhere.
The drive from France to the nearest German motorway without a speed limit isn't that far, though.
You can also do track days and such, but I agree with you they don't need to be that quick
load more comments
(1 replies)
There's a requirement to electronically limit the speed of all new road vehicles sold in the EU since 2024. The only problem is the vast difference in highway speeds within the Schengen area.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Not that I don't agree with you, but to be fair, cars do require a license, they have to be registered and reguraly checked, which is not the case for a bike. In my opinion the failure here is that those should not be allowed for sale as bikes. Those are motocycle in all but name.
In Norway e-bikes are extremely strictly regulated: They need to have a power output of 250 W or less, motor output has to be linked to your pedaling movements, and the motor has to shut off completely when you reach 25 km/h. Anything more than that and you need to register it as a scooter/motorcycle. At which point you need a drivers licence, insurance, and can no longer ride it on bike paths. I was under the impression that this was an EU requirement. But maybe S-Pedelecs are treated like normal bicycles in the rest of Europe?
It's the same in the EU but as with cars, the power can be electronically limited, so the user can remove the limitation with some limited tinkering. So you end up with and electric motorbike, and there is no regular check or registration. I have also never Heard of any form of control about this. Still better than letting people buy cars that can go 250kmh and trusting them with it, but at least you can track car owners.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Totally agree with you. Would like to add that we should also limit the noise that cars and motorcycles make. Many places have noise regulations but they are rarely enforced
Governors presumably set to the speed limit?
There are places in the US with posted 85mph speed limits on the freeways.
Is that where we are setting them?
load more comments
(5 replies)
From the interview:
The whole industry is worried, but it's not about one company. With motors like these, we are moving further and further away from bicycles, and as an industry, we risk e-bikes being regulated by the EU. So far, e-bikes have been treated the same as bicycles in the EU. And we as the ZIV want to protect this status. To achieve this, we need to clarify the gray areas in regulation that define what is and what is not a bicycle. And two values are important here: performance and the ratio between rider power and motor power.
In this respect, DJI achieves values with the Avinox motor with 1000 watts and 800 percent muscle gain that did not exist before.
As I said, it's not just about one specific brand. It's about everyone pushing the performance values upwards. And the EU could look at this and ask: What are you actually doing here with your Newton meter power assistance factor race? Unlike the e-bike, the S-pedelec with a cut-off speed of 45 km/h is considered a moped in the L1 class and is subject to type approval. The type approval defines the assistance factor 4 for the S-pedelec.
And now the e-bike manufacturers are launching e-bikes that do not require type approval with a factor of 8 on the market.
Note that there is some confusing terminology: "eBike" as a common (but wrong) term means a bicycle with assistance electric power which is limited to 25 km/h in speed. The proper term for this is "Pedelec". In difference to this, "S-Pedelec" means a light motorcycle which in Germany can go with up to 45 km/h, needs insurance, license plate, strict technical certification, helmet - and cannot, of course, use bicycle paths and cycle lanes.
load more comments
(10 replies)
as an american, this doesn't directly affect me, but I am concerned that by the time I can afford to buy a good high power ebike, they might not exist anymore. I'd like it to not take all day just to cross town.
I agree with the idea that a better solution is to just apply a speed limit to bike lanes.
It'll exist, but you'll need a motorcycle license to drive it, and it'll be only on the street.
And that will be a good thing.
Related podcast: Why I'm Ebike-pilled (with American Fietser) - YouTube (The Urbanist Agenda Podcast). They get a bit into the problem of producers trying to sell more "pseudo-motorcycle" vehicles and how the arms race and regulation race work out.
load more comments
(3 replies)
view more: next โบ